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foreign

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[Music]

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[Laughter]

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[Music]

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welcome back to liminal frames your

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interdimensional spectacle dealer where

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we try not to make too much of a

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spectacle out of the phenomenon I'm your

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host Nathan and I'm joined by my friend

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and co-host and co-conspirator Darren

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EXO academian Darren

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happy I guess we're almost toward the

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end of the week here uh how's it going

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what's going on with you uh spring is on

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the way and today was a beautiful day

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here I don't know how it was for you but

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I really enjoyed stepping outside and

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taking the stroll

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Neil and fan it was a great day wasn't

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it

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Griffin cabins you don't realize you

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know Nate is always posting these like

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this AI Arc I need really some said

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prefer like neon colors so I thought

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neon Nathan would be a good nickname

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then I thought wait a second I've got

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EXO Academia so let me neon fan or

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something like that because Monica what

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do you think I think it's fantastic and

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uh I couldn't help but respond today

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with a little bit of a Tron inside joke

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uh a great movie by the way Tron and

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also uh the more recent Tron and I heard

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they're even going to make a neutron uh

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I'm looking forward to seeing that I've

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always been a fan of Neon

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uh and also like psychedelic colors they

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just you know that kind of vibrant

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energy speaks to me uh so yeah I started

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a thing called wallpaper Wednesdays now

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so every every Wednesday I'm just

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putting out some phone wallpapers people

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need some fresh paint on their phone so

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you can pick that up if you follow me on

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Twitter uh I take care of the art and

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you take care of the the Deep Thoughts

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that's kind of how it's been going

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lately that's right so it won't be a

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surprise to people that the the bright

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colors that are part of the liminal

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frames logo and uh artwork was also from

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Nathan those are his go-to colors pretty

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much that's trying to go wrong I mean

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you can't beat a good purple and green

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man

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um yeah that's been a whole fun Journey

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the AI stuff and uh I feel like uh just

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like a lot of folks part of that AI

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Trend right now it's everywhere you

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can't uh turn around without bumping

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into some sort of gbt of some kind uh

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and it's a it's a strange place to be

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but also an exciting time

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um but but at time sort of ripe with a

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ton of uh potentiality and uh just sort

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of like the potentiality that exists

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inside the atom right we know it can be

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really powerful and good and it can be

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incredibly destructive so that's sort of

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what I'm feeling lately yeah I mean

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absolutely you and I have been talking

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about this for a while now just how you

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know many people are still

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unaware of how much this is sneaking up

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on us like this

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uh you know this sleeping giant that's

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quickly waking up and

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the way that iterates so quickly and the

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way that it's so

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um

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spreading into our society and sort of

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every industry you can imagine not only

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how disruptive it'll be to to economies

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potentially because we don't really plan

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these things ahead of time right when

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you have a free market system

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again this is one of the weaknesses of

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that is that when you have real systemic

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change like this there's there's no

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capacity to prepare for it really and

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even if you did try to you know hold

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hearings or something and begin to walk

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through the red tape of

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thinking about how we should actually

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regulate the AI by then it's like you

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know probably you're in like Terminator

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you know territory where it's it's too

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late so like you said it's interesting

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looking back at our history

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yeah even for our age group and sort of

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realizing there's been these different

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technologies that every time they roll

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out people are like this is bad you know

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this is going to be the end of society

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other people like well this is real

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opportunity for growth and change and

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and both of those are true and it's true

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here as well like AI

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by the way people the show is not on AI

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but we just we couldn't walk here and

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things are these are things Nathan and I

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have talked about recently just how it

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is it does hold great potential to

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transform our society many of the ways

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that

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you know Communists and socialist ideals

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in the past have always failed because

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you get the healing factor that comes in

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it's always corrupt and

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um inefficient and uh you kind of get

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the In Crowd that looks out for

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themselves over and over again here you

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have the potential to really just

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run pure computational power at this

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thing and solve some major Global issues

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potentially even in some ways that we

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don't necessarily understand how it gets

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to the answers because it kind of

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accesses these kinds of questions from

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like a multi-dimensional kind of Matrix

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and and yet on the other hand because of

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that by that very notion that we don't

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know how it gets there we could hand it

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certain questions and it could take go

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in directions we never plan for even

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quite you know even directions of maybe

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uh detrimental to uh the survival of our

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civilization potential so these well

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we're not even exaggerating that this is

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not sci-fi you know uh Saturday or

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something uh this is this is real issues

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we're facing and as Nathan and I were

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talking about before we went on the Air

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Tonight

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I don't think it's even a a coincidence

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that this is happening in the midst of

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this sense of something with the others

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going on in our midst there's there's so

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many things going on in the world right

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now that make it seem like we really are

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the precipice of something major whether

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it's you know the potential of nuclear

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warfare because things are really

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ramping up and we seem to have a new

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Cold War kind of brewing with the

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positioning of different groups and

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different uh Nations and some of these

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is a lot less clean than the old Cold

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War right

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um and on top of that you've got you

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know biohazards we look back at what

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happened with covid and that kind of

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thing and how that could be weaponized

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and many people having you know concerns

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that that was part of a weaponization of

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these kinds of things uh then you know

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you've got the war in Ukraine and

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Putin becoming more and more cornered

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you know like an animal that um really

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sees no way out and and on the one hand

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certainly he's committed to more crimes

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but on the other hand when you Corner an

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animal you you give it fewer fewer

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choices and this is an animal that's

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sitting on the button to you know

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detonate nuclear weapons so

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tricky tricky times and then when you

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add to that the sense that

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so many experiencers that I'm talking to

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are having the sense of something major

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with them being in the midst and this

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also relates to what I've been talking

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about recent podcasts just how there's

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this sense of These two factions and

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something happening in the world and

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when you look at the as we said before

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it went on the air when you look at the

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situation take the others out of it you

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just look at the situation it sure looks

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like a powder keg that's just waiting to

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uh to bloat

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yeah it makes me think of that game from

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childhood the musical chairs right if

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you're uh you know put the kids in the

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room you know take one chair away from

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the number of kids that are there you

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play some play some music and they walk

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around the chairs and you stop the music

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and everybody gets to sit down stays in

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the game and the person that didn't get

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to sit down they're out to eventually

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get down to that last chair and I don't

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know if you've ever witnessed this or

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remember it from your childhood but if

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it's really violent when that last chair

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is is in a room and and there's some you

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know come to blows the chair sometimes

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explodes because people were getting

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onto that thing so fast so uh yeah it's

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a it's a very tenuous time

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and I think with AI it's not

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really too far to say that we're dealing

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with the kind of alien intelligence and

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as you said the inner workings of it uh

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how it arrives at its conclusions you

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know we may not be able to comprehend

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that and there's a lot of I think there

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will be a lot of calls to say

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well we need to understand this better

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how do we understand this how does it do

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what it's doing we need more data we

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need to get scientists and academics to

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kind of study this more intently and

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figure out how it's doing what it's

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doing

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and and I think we're reaching a point

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where even that effort might not be able

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to to understand it to comprehend it

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um and and I think that's a great

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parallel to sort of what we're dealing

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with more broadly

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with uh the non-human intelligence from

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the phenomena uh what it is doing uh

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what it means and and there are a lot of

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calls recently for

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the same thing

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we need better data on the phenomena we

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need more sensors more analysis more

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phds needed to be taken more seriously

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because if we can just throw enough

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knowledge academics at whatever this is

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well then surely we're going to figure

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it out

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semblance of control and Mastery over it

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that's that's worked for us before right

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we we've uh discovered there are these

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things called germs and by throwing our

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scientific effort at germs we've got a

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little bit of a handle on how they how

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they work and understanding that washing

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your hands is a good idea uh you know

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nevertheless germs are still there

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they're still killing people right so uh

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understanding it and and and stopping it

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from doing whatever it may do are two

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different things uh but we want to

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tackle this issue

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of

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uh and I think the the this premise

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right that that we can understand the

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phenomena through the means that we

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understand everything else that happens

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in our world today uh through the means

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and methods of of uh materialism and

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physicalism and the scientific method

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you know are these the tools that are

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the that are going to work in helping us

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to really get our arms around what this

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is or is it something beyond that so

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what are the the benefits of that

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approach and where does it fall short

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um where do you start with that

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well a couple things come to mind one is

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that you know I I

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um and friends with um and in

276
00:10:34,430 --> 00:10:31,080
association with a lot of experiencers

277
00:10:37,790 --> 00:10:34,440
and I think from our perspective

278
00:10:40,370 --> 00:10:37,800
this is a uh an opportunity to be

279
00:10:43,790 --> 00:10:40,380
Vindicated in in front of the public by

280
00:10:45,949 --> 00:10:43,800
right to actually have people who are

281
00:10:47,389 --> 00:10:45,959
respected as being able to determine

282
00:10:49,910 --> 00:10:47,399
whether or not these things are quote

283
00:10:52,430 --> 00:10:49,920
unquote real come in and apply the

284
00:10:55,310 --> 00:10:52,440
scientific method run some experiments

285
00:10:57,410 --> 00:10:55,320
prove quote unquote that it's real and

286
00:11:01,130 --> 00:10:57,420
that it's not something conventional or

287
00:11:03,230 --> 00:11:01,140
prosaic and in so doing indicate people

288
00:11:05,630 --> 00:11:03,240
who've spent decades and decades either

289
00:11:07,430 --> 00:11:05,640
experiencing ridicule and scoff

290
00:11:09,710 --> 00:11:07,440
and questions about their mental health

291
00:11:11,030 --> 00:11:09,720
or they've had to just stay in the

292
00:11:12,470 --> 00:11:11,040
shadows and not talk about it because

293
00:11:15,949 --> 00:11:12,480
they know darn well that's what they'll

294
00:11:18,470 --> 00:11:15,959
run into so even just today I was

295
00:11:20,329 --> 00:11:18,480
dialing with someone on social media who

296
00:11:21,949 --> 00:11:20,339
for the first time

297
00:11:23,269 --> 00:11:21,959
has come out and talked about the

298
00:11:24,530 --> 00:11:23,279
experiences they've had and they're in

299
00:11:26,150 --> 00:11:24,540
their 70s now

300
00:11:28,190 --> 00:11:26,160
this is the first time in their lifetime

301
00:11:30,829 --> 00:11:28,200
they've done this and even then they

302
00:11:31,610 --> 00:11:30,839
talked about basically being in tears as

303
00:11:33,710 --> 00:11:31,620
they

304
00:11:36,290 --> 00:11:33,720
pushed you know send on that social

305
00:11:38,509 --> 00:11:36,300
media post right because they they know

306
00:11:41,210 --> 00:11:38,519
what even today what that means right

307
00:11:42,470 --> 00:11:41,220
and and there's so much emotion wrapped

308
00:11:44,329 --> 00:11:42,480
up in

309
00:11:47,210 --> 00:11:44,339
decades and Decades of having these

310
00:11:50,509 --> 00:11:47,220
experiences and not having any place to

311
00:11:52,790 --> 00:11:50,519
talk about them to digest and work

312
00:11:54,470 --> 00:11:52,800
through them right so I think about that

313
00:11:57,769 --> 00:11:54,480
when I think about this

314
00:11:59,389 --> 00:11:57,779
push for academic involvement I think

315
00:12:01,009 --> 00:11:59,399
there's also people on the nuts on both

316
00:12:04,250 --> 00:12:01,019
sides so not so much experiencers but

317
00:12:06,050 --> 00:12:04,260
the nuts and bald side who in their own

318
00:12:07,910 --> 00:12:06,060
way are convinced something's going on

319
00:12:10,370 --> 00:12:07,920
that there isn't there there you know as

320
00:12:12,470 --> 00:12:10,380
we say they they know that going back to

321
00:12:14,750 --> 00:12:12,480
Roswell before there's there's just been

322
00:12:17,090 --> 00:12:14,760
a massive cover-up therefore they

323
00:12:19,250 --> 00:12:17,100
believe the evidence must exist and

324
00:12:22,130 --> 00:12:19,260
maybe they have not gone too far down

325
00:12:24,230 --> 00:12:22,140
the Wu road yet so they think that

326
00:12:26,210 --> 00:12:24,240
academics coming in is a great idea and

327
00:12:29,690 --> 00:12:26,220
this is going to be our Shangri-La

328
00:12:31,490 --> 00:12:29,700
moment where we we suddenly

329
00:12:33,410 --> 00:12:31,500
is that it's in their mind it's just

330
00:12:34,970 --> 00:12:33,420
about getting academic involved and once

331
00:12:37,310 --> 00:12:34,980
it happens then everything else will

332
00:12:39,170 --> 00:12:37,320
follow but perhaps that's a bit naive

333
00:12:42,530 --> 00:12:39,180
what are your thoughts on it

334
00:12:44,750 --> 00:12:42,540
yeah I I a lot of things come to mind uh

335
00:12:47,690 --> 00:12:44,760
Skinwalker Ranch for example all the

336
00:12:51,470 --> 00:12:47,700
experiments and technology that are

337
00:12:54,290 --> 00:12:51,480
thrown at that mysterious place and uh

338
00:12:55,970 --> 00:12:54,300
if you've watched the show which I I

339
00:12:57,530 --> 00:12:55,980
encourage folks to see I think it's you

340
00:13:01,069 --> 00:12:57,540
know entertaining and interesting

341
00:13:02,870 --> 00:13:01,079
fascinating but many times uh bizarre

342
00:13:04,850 --> 00:13:02,880
things happen and they're non-repeatable

343
00:13:06,350 --> 00:13:04,860
things it's like well you know it's

344
00:13:07,670 --> 00:13:06,360
messing with our instruments in this way

345
00:13:09,350 --> 00:13:07,680
and it's totally messing with them in

346
00:13:11,030 --> 00:13:09,360
this other way and and we can't quite

347
00:13:13,970 --> 00:13:11,040
pin it down we can't get that

348
00:13:16,250 --> 00:13:13,980
reproducibility that We crave with our

349
00:13:18,590 --> 00:13:16,260
scientific approach to understanding

350
00:13:21,530 --> 00:13:18,600
things and I think about the worker shop

351
00:13:24,470 --> 00:13:21,540
filet of course uh where you know he and

352
00:13:25,970 --> 00:13:24,480
Jalen heineck took scientific approach

353
00:13:28,670 --> 00:13:25,980
to this and you know kind of came away

354
00:13:31,610 --> 00:13:28,680
many times scratching their heads uh I

355
00:13:35,269 --> 00:13:31,620
think about how put off and uh you know

356
00:13:36,949 --> 00:13:35,279
and the work that he did uh many similar

357
00:13:40,310 --> 00:13:36,959
examples of it just being really

358
00:13:42,230 --> 00:13:40,320
confounding and not adhering to to the

359
00:13:43,430 --> 00:13:42,240
rules right it's sort of like you get in

360
00:13:45,410 --> 00:13:43,440
that situation where you're trying to

361
00:13:46,910 --> 00:13:45,420
play a game with someone like here's the

362
00:13:48,410 --> 00:13:46,920
game here's how here's how the rules are

363
00:13:50,329 --> 00:13:48,420
and they like just ignore the rules

364
00:13:51,470 --> 00:13:50,339
entirely and they're like I win and

365
00:13:52,730 --> 00:13:51,480
you're like no no but you're not playing

366
00:13:54,050 --> 00:13:52,740
the game according to the rules so

367
00:13:56,750 --> 00:13:54,060
you're literally you're not playing the

368
00:13:58,550 --> 00:13:56,760
game you're doing something else and and

369
00:14:01,610 --> 00:13:58,560
that's kind of where we are it's sort of

370
00:14:05,690 --> 00:14:01,620
demanding that reality as we experience

371
00:14:07,930 --> 00:14:05,700
it conform to our uh our Notions of what

372
00:14:11,210 --> 00:14:07,940
is possible to to our possibility space

373
00:14:13,190 --> 00:14:11,220
I also think about the recent paper that

374
00:14:15,949 --> 00:14:13,200
was co-authored from

375
00:14:18,230 --> 00:14:15,959
Avi Loeb and Sean Kirkpatrick and a lot

376
00:14:20,810 --> 00:14:18,240
of folks got pretty upset about because

377
00:14:23,810 --> 00:14:20,820
the bounds of the possible were were

378
00:14:25,550 --> 00:14:23,820
quite narrow in that paper uh even

379
00:14:27,949 --> 00:14:25,560
though has been the source of a lot of

380
00:14:29,449 --> 00:14:27,959
Click bait articles about motherships

381
00:14:32,629 --> 00:14:29,459
and our solar system and things like

382
00:14:36,670 --> 00:14:32,639
that but but the possibility space of

383
00:14:39,290 --> 00:14:36,680
what alien technology can do was

384
00:14:41,689 --> 00:14:39,300
confined to essentially the things that

385
00:14:45,050 --> 00:14:41,699
we think are are the are the limits of

386
00:14:48,110 --> 00:14:45,060
the physics and uh folks who have had

387
00:14:50,449 --> 00:14:48,120
experiences of this technology or even

388
00:14:53,509 --> 00:14:50,459
looking at incidents like the Nimitz of

389
00:14:55,310 --> 00:14:53,519
course the the famous incident there uh

390
00:14:58,069 --> 00:14:55,320
we'll say well then how did it do that

391
00:14:59,269 --> 00:14:58,079
you know if it's doing that and our

392
00:15:00,530 --> 00:14:59,279
sensors are saying that and the

393
00:15:02,350 --> 00:15:00,540
Witnesses are saying it's doing that

394
00:15:05,449 --> 00:15:02,360
then clearly something is happening

395
00:15:09,050 --> 00:15:05,459
outside of the balance of what we would

396
00:15:11,470 --> 00:15:09,060
consider to be possible and so you know

397
00:15:14,870 --> 00:15:11,480
again we've just got many examples here

398
00:15:16,970 --> 00:15:14,880
of of the limits of our understanding

399
00:15:19,370 --> 00:15:16,980
and and I think the frustrations of our

400
00:15:21,290 --> 00:15:19,380
of our attempts to understand this and

401
00:15:23,329 --> 00:15:21,300
and pointing to to what we've been

402
00:15:25,910 --> 00:15:23,339
hitting at here and that's just just

403
00:15:28,250 --> 00:15:25,920
throwing academics at this may not

404
00:15:30,829 --> 00:15:28,260
necessarily yield the results that we

405
00:15:33,590 --> 00:15:30,839
want and

406
00:15:36,170 --> 00:15:33,600
is it going to come down to needing that

407
00:15:37,850 --> 00:15:36,180
kind of proof for people to take it

408
00:15:40,009 --> 00:15:37,860
seriously like is the world going to

409
00:15:42,949 --> 00:15:40,019
need Academia to say well yes we have

410
00:15:46,189 --> 00:15:42,959
reproduced this and therefore it is real

411
00:15:49,129 --> 00:15:46,199
or is it going to be uh is going to sort

412
00:15:52,009 --> 00:15:49,139
of transcend that or exceed those bounds

413
00:15:53,569 --> 00:15:52,019
and create something new that is maybe a

414
00:15:57,050 --> 00:15:53,579
kind of fusion of what we understand

415
00:15:59,030 --> 00:15:57,060
science to be but also uh to some degree

416
00:16:00,829 --> 00:15:59,040
what we understand things like mysticism

417
00:16:03,110 --> 00:16:00,839
to be

418
00:16:05,509 --> 00:16:03,120
yeah great points I have several things

419
00:16:09,050 --> 00:16:05,519
occur to me one is that

420
00:16:11,329 --> 00:16:09,060
the reason why I think it's misplaced

421
00:16:13,129 --> 00:16:11,339
um hope to suggest that

422
00:16:14,870 --> 00:16:13,139
Academia is going to come in and number

423
00:16:16,189 --> 00:16:14,880
one be able to reproduce it that's our

424
00:16:19,129 --> 00:16:16,199
first question right

425
00:16:21,290 --> 00:16:19,139
the second one is even if they could how

426
00:16:23,449 --> 00:16:21,300
much would that really change things the

427
00:16:25,970 --> 00:16:23,459
reason I bring that up is because

428
00:16:29,090 --> 00:16:25,980
there has existed pretty compelling

429
00:16:31,490 --> 00:16:29,100
evidence from parapsychological research

430
00:16:33,530 --> 00:16:31,500
for going back like 150 years she's even

431
00:16:37,009 --> 00:16:33,540
going back prior to the quantum

432
00:16:39,170 --> 00:16:37,019
Revelations right so and yet it really

433
00:16:41,269 --> 00:16:39,180
hasn't changed our society most people

434
00:16:43,430 --> 00:16:41,279
that you talk to in the public believe

435
00:16:44,990 --> 00:16:43,440
in some sort of psychic capacity right

436
00:16:47,150 --> 00:16:45,000
but it doesn't

437
00:16:49,129 --> 00:16:47,160
doesn't really filter into the way

438
00:16:51,949 --> 00:16:49,139
academics think about these things it

439
00:16:53,269 --> 00:16:51,959
has not caused the revolution that it

440
00:16:55,129 --> 00:16:53,279
should have so I think that's the first

441
00:16:56,749 --> 00:16:55,139
thing I point out to people is the

442
00:16:59,150 --> 00:16:56,759
evidence alone does not necessarily

443
00:17:00,769 --> 00:16:59,160
change these human institutions even

444
00:17:03,949 --> 00:17:00,779
ones that it supposedly are supposed to

445
00:17:06,470 --> 00:17:03,959
be about pursuing truth that even

446
00:17:08,870 --> 00:17:06,480
while we want to look back at religious

447
00:17:10,909 --> 00:17:08,880
history and say you know in the Medieval

448
00:17:13,909 --> 00:17:10,919
World the church

449
00:17:16,069 --> 00:17:13,919
had his grip on on reality and they

450
00:17:19,789 --> 00:17:16,079
could Define the reality model of the

451
00:17:21,409 --> 00:17:19,799
day and that was you know passed aside

452
00:17:23,329 --> 00:17:21,419
and eventually overtaken by this

453
00:17:25,850 --> 00:17:23,339
Scientific Revolution which is all about

454
00:17:28,250 --> 00:17:25,860
this pioneering Spirit of what is is

455
00:17:29,570 --> 00:17:28,260
Emily will just be completely honest and

456
00:17:31,610 --> 00:17:29,580
forthright about this and we'll go

457
00:17:34,010 --> 00:17:31,620
anywhere the data takes us

458
00:17:35,570 --> 00:17:34,020
gosh darn it you know all of that's a

459
00:17:38,029 --> 00:17:35,580
bit naive like there's definitely that's

460
00:17:40,669 --> 00:17:38,039
the spirit of Science and there are many

461
00:17:43,190 --> 00:17:40,679
many scientists working with that

462
00:17:45,710 --> 00:17:43,200
hope in mind that that underlying Prince

463
00:17:47,690 --> 00:17:45,720
set of principles in mind and yet you

464
00:17:50,029 --> 00:17:47,700
know human nature just gets in the way

465
00:17:51,470 --> 00:17:50,039
right even when we mean well it just

466
00:17:53,810 --> 00:17:51,480
gets in the way

467
00:17:56,029 --> 00:17:53,820
partly because we've been

468
00:17:58,250 --> 00:17:56,039
we've evolved in such ways that we we do

469
00:17:59,630 --> 00:17:58,260
make assumptions all day long we have to

470
00:18:01,549 --> 00:17:59,640
make assumptions just to get through the

471
00:18:03,049 --> 00:18:01,559
world because there's so much data would

472
00:18:04,490 --> 00:18:03,059
be completely overwhelmed if we didn't

473
00:18:06,409 --> 00:18:04,500
make assumptions

474
00:18:09,049 --> 00:18:06,419
but because of that and because

475
00:18:11,750 --> 00:18:09,059
physicalism is the dominant Paradigm and

476
00:18:14,029 --> 00:18:11,760
has been for several hundred years it

477
00:18:15,710 --> 00:18:14,039
makes it so that we these these

478
00:18:17,570 --> 00:18:15,720
assumptions just never get questioned

479
00:18:19,549 --> 00:18:17,580
right so that's another thing to bring

480
00:18:22,310 --> 00:18:19,559
into the mix is

481
00:18:23,690 --> 00:18:22,320
what assumptions are baked into any

482
00:18:25,669 --> 00:18:23,700
dominant Paradigm whether it was the

483
00:18:27,169 --> 00:18:25,679
Catholic church and you know several

484
00:18:29,570 --> 00:18:27,179
hundred years ago or its physicalism

485
00:18:30,890 --> 00:18:29,580
today in the Western World these are

486
00:18:32,930 --> 00:18:30,900
things to think about

487
00:18:35,750 --> 00:18:32,940
another thing that occurs to me

488
00:18:38,150 --> 00:18:35,760
going back to that that are that the um

489
00:18:41,150 --> 00:18:38,160
the paper put together by Kirkpatrick

490
00:18:42,470 --> 00:18:41,160
and abiloib is that

491
00:18:44,270 --> 00:18:42,480
we were talking about this for when on

492
00:18:46,190 --> 00:18:44,280
the air it's it's like so Star Trek

493
00:18:48,350 --> 00:18:46,200
right so I think you know Mothership

494
00:18:50,029 --> 00:18:48,360
comes in sends out the scope probes that

495
00:18:51,650 --> 00:18:50,039
go down to the planet they do some stuff

496
00:18:53,810 --> 00:18:51,660
they go back up it's like almost like

497
00:18:57,590 --> 00:18:53,820
Battlestar Galactica from the 70s I get

498
00:19:00,529 --> 00:18:57,600
so it's so like traditional sci-fi right

499
00:19:03,289 --> 00:19:00,539
uh that

500
00:19:05,690 --> 00:19:03,299
is kind of laughable because

501
00:19:08,090 --> 00:19:05,700
the reality is

502
00:19:09,590 --> 00:19:08,100
as we talked about many times these

503
00:19:11,450 --> 00:19:09,600
things have been here longer than we

504
00:19:12,770 --> 00:19:11,460
have right so it's it's not even there's

505
00:19:15,169 --> 00:19:12,780
no shaking that they're coming to our

506
00:19:16,610 --> 00:19:15,179
planet is is laughable right it they

507
00:19:18,650 --> 00:19:16,620
were here long before we were it's not

508
00:19:19,850 --> 00:19:18,660
our planet uh by any stretch of the

509
00:19:22,010 --> 00:19:19,860
imagination

510
00:19:24,470 --> 00:19:22,020
we have all sorts of evidence pointing

511
00:19:26,570 --> 00:19:24,480
to and I've seen evidence suggesting

512
00:19:28,370 --> 00:19:26,580
that you know they have bases in the

513
00:19:29,990 --> 00:19:28,380
ocean right and that it's not

514
00:19:31,370 --> 00:19:30,000
coincidental that we see them going in

515
00:19:32,870 --> 00:19:31,380
and out of the ocean so many times it's

516
00:19:36,350 --> 00:19:32,880
because they don't have to go back to a

517
00:19:38,210 --> 00:19:36,360
Mothership you know uh somewhere else in

518
00:19:39,710 --> 00:19:38,220
the Milky Way they they have bases right

519
00:19:42,289 --> 00:19:39,720
here right

520
00:19:43,789 --> 00:19:42,299
even the Moon is is hollow and there's

521
00:19:45,350 --> 00:19:43,799
things going on there right people have

522
00:19:48,409 --> 00:19:45,360
suggested this for a long time I would

523
00:19:50,630 --> 00:19:48,419
say that's true so these are all things

524
00:19:52,190 --> 00:19:50,640
that kind of make laughable this notion

525
00:19:54,710 --> 00:19:52,200
that the mothership is like you know

526
00:19:55,970 --> 00:19:54,720
docked and then uh

527
00:19:58,610 --> 00:19:55,980
you know you've got the Scout craft

528
00:20:02,029 --> 00:20:00,289
but getting beyond that I think it would

529
00:20:04,310 --> 00:20:02,039
be helpful to

530
00:20:06,830 --> 00:20:04,320
first identify what

531
00:20:09,049 --> 00:20:06,840
what is the scientific method right what

532
00:20:11,210 --> 00:20:09,059
are the assumptions in science and to

533
00:20:12,950 --> 00:20:11,220
what degree can that apply here right

534
00:20:15,350 --> 00:20:12,960
and I think there's different directions

535
00:20:17,270 --> 00:20:15,360
we want to go but we really want to

536
00:20:20,029 --> 00:20:17,280
first of all I think be clear about what

537
00:20:21,710 --> 00:20:20,039
it is right and then think about the

538
00:20:24,590 --> 00:20:21,720
nature of the phenomenon right and the

539
00:20:27,710 --> 00:20:24,600
phenomena as you rightly point out

540
00:20:30,110 --> 00:20:27,720
and and how much is that the kind of

541
00:20:32,150 --> 00:20:30,120
thing that can apply in these circles

542
00:20:33,590 --> 00:20:32,160
because one thing I again I was saying

543
00:20:34,909 --> 00:20:33,600
to you before when on the air

544
00:20:37,130 --> 00:20:34,919
is that

545
00:20:38,870 --> 00:20:37,140
science can only answer scientific

546
00:20:41,029 --> 00:20:38,880
questions and not all questions are

547
00:20:42,710 --> 00:20:41,039
science questions so

548
00:20:44,870 --> 00:20:42,720
let me mention some things here and we

549
00:20:46,730 --> 00:20:44,880
can sort of bounce off it from there

550
00:20:47,750 --> 00:20:46,740
so one of the assumptions of science is

551
00:20:49,730 --> 00:20:47,760
that

552
00:20:51,169 --> 00:20:49,740
one is determinism right the assumption

553
00:20:55,310 --> 00:20:51,179
that all events in the universe

554
00:20:57,289 --> 00:20:55,320
including Behavior are lawful or orderly

555
00:20:59,450 --> 00:20:57,299
the second assumption is that this

556
00:21:00,529 --> 00:20:59,460
lawfulness is discoverable

557
00:21:02,150 --> 00:21:00,539
okay

558
00:21:04,490 --> 00:21:02,160
quick aside there by the way that's very

559
00:21:06,409 --> 00:21:04,500
interesting because

560
00:21:10,310 --> 00:21:06,419
as much as

561
00:21:12,350 --> 00:21:10,320
science was in many ways trying to stand

562
00:21:14,750 --> 00:21:12,360
against what they saw as the

563
00:21:15,950 --> 00:21:14,760
irrationality of the church when you

564
00:21:19,130 --> 00:21:15,960
think about these kind of terms right

565
00:21:21,830 --> 00:21:19,140
lawfulness and order it actually arises

566
00:21:23,810 --> 00:21:21,840
at a very early science which came out

567
00:21:25,549 --> 00:21:23,820
of Christendom where there was a sense

568
00:21:27,470 --> 00:21:25,559
that there was this though God at the

569
00:21:29,570 --> 00:21:27,480
center of the universe that set forth

570
00:21:31,610 --> 00:21:29,580
these Eternal laws and it was those laws

571
00:21:33,289 --> 00:21:31,620
that governed the natural world so it's

572
00:21:36,049 --> 00:21:33,299
very interesting how you still see that

573
00:21:38,029 --> 00:21:36,059
kind of language baked in to scientism

574
00:21:40,789 --> 00:21:38,039
right very very interesting

575
00:21:42,350 --> 00:21:40,799
and let me say three other things so

576
00:21:44,930 --> 00:21:42,360
again this is about the assumptions

577
00:21:46,850 --> 00:21:44,940
nature is orderly and the laws of nature

578
00:21:49,970 --> 00:21:46,860
describe that order

579
00:21:54,590 --> 00:21:49,980
number two we can know nature number

580
00:21:56,210 --> 00:21:54,600
three all phenomena have natural causes

581
00:21:58,190 --> 00:21:56,220
we assume that nothing we see is

582
00:22:00,770 --> 00:21:58,200
unnatural if it occurs within nature

583
00:22:02,450 --> 00:22:00,780
then it is a natural occurrence and if

584
00:22:04,909 --> 00:22:02,460
it's a natural occurrence we assume that

585
00:22:07,549 --> 00:22:04,919
it obeys some natural law and that by

586
00:22:10,010 --> 00:22:07,559
observing it we can learn about

587
00:22:11,029 --> 00:22:10,020
and then the scientific method how is

588
00:22:13,190 --> 00:22:11,039
that defined

589
00:22:16,370 --> 00:22:13,200
the basic process involves making an

590
00:22:18,830 --> 00:22:16,380
observation forming a hypothesis making

591
00:22:21,470 --> 00:22:18,840
a prediction conducting an experiment

592
00:22:23,690 --> 00:22:21,480
and finally analyzing the results

593
00:22:25,789 --> 00:22:23,700
and as part of that scientific method

594
00:22:28,130 --> 00:22:25,799
and running these experiments you have

595
00:22:29,930 --> 00:22:28,140
the independent variable which is is

596
00:22:31,190 --> 00:22:29,940
changed during the experiment right this

597
00:22:33,710 --> 00:22:31,200
is the thing you're trying to toggle to

598
00:22:36,110 --> 00:22:33,720
see what kind of effect it has then you

599
00:22:37,669 --> 00:22:36,120
have dependent variables which is what's

600
00:22:39,289 --> 00:22:37,679
measured during the experiment when I

601
00:22:40,789 --> 00:22:39,299
change this one thing how does it impact

602
00:22:42,409 --> 00:22:40,799
this other thing

603
00:22:45,049 --> 00:22:42,419
then you have the controlled variable

604
00:22:46,909 --> 00:22:45,059
that stay the same during the experiment

605
00:22:48,830 --> 00:22:46,919
then finally you conduct the experiment

606
00:22:52,010 --> 00:22:48,840
several times to make sure the results

607
00:22:53,570 --> 00:22:52,020
are reproducible and not random so

608
00:22:55,610 --> 00:22:53,580
that's what we're talking about

609
00:22:57,710 --> 00:22:55,620
in terms of what people hope that

610
00:23:00,049 --> 00:22:57,720
academics are going to apply here right

611
00:23:02,149 --> 00:23:00,059
and so then that raises the question to

612
00:23:04,610 --> 00:23:02,159
what degree does the phenomena that

613
00:23:06,950 --> 00:23:04,620
we're aware of and that is

614
00:23:09,350 --> 00:23:06,960
attested to in the literature fit within

615
00:23:13,310 --> 00:23:09,360
those parameters what are your thoughts

616
00:23:15,649 --> 00:23:13,320
yeah well a lot of things there I uh I

617
00:23:18,649 --> 00:23:15,659
think about the

618
00:23:21,649 --> 00:23:18,659
conception of of sort of God being this

619
00:23:23,510 --> 00:23:21,659
the watchmaker right that there's

620
00:23:27,169 --> 00:23:23,520
and like you said that there's this

621
00:23:31,250 --> 00:23:27,179
inherited order to the process that came

622
00:23:34,490 --> 00:23:31,260
from this conception of of the Divine

623
00:23:36,470 --> 00:23:34,500
kind of ordering everything that there

624
00:23:39,110 --> 00:23:36,480
is and and setting it into motion and

625
00:23:40,789 --> 00:23:39,120
kind of stepping away and just letting

626
00:23:44,090 --> 00:23:40,799
the the clock

627
00:23:46,730 --> 00:23:44,100
do its thing uh but every gear being

628
00:23:49,250 --> 00:23:46,740
specifically designed and to to you know

629
00:23:52,190 --> 00:23:49,260
ticket a certain interval Etc

630
00:23:55,250 --> 00:23:52,200
uh so that that conception

631
00:23:57,950 --> 00:23:55,260
very obviously has been borrowed uh

632
00:24:01,330 --> 00:23:57,960
which makes sense right that those who

633
00:24:04,310 --> 00:24:01,340
grew up uh and became kind of the first

634
00:24:06,830 --> 00:24:04,320
pioneers of the scientific method

635
00:24:08,750 --> 00:24:06,840
let's not forget the the world in which

636
00:24:11,450 --> 00:24:08,760
they found themselves the world in which

637
00:24:14,289 --> 00:24:11,460
they were born was steeped in that kind

638
00:24:17,450 --> 00:24:14,299
of conception uh which is also quite old

639
00:24:21,049 --> 00:24:17,460
uh you know this notion of

640
00:24:22,490 --> 00:24:21,059
Falls immutable laws and an order

641
00:24:23,450 --> 00:24:22,500
um so it makes a lot of sense that they

642
00:24:26,029 --> 00:24:23,460
would

643
00:24:28,850 --> 00:24:26,039
take that understanding and and kind of

644
00:24:31,310 --> 00:24:28,860
take God out of the equation uh and then

645
00:24:33,049 --> 00:24:31,320
just put themselves into that blank spot

646
00:24:35,750 --> 00:24:33,059
right

647
00:24:38,630 --> 00:24:35,760
um the one the watchmaker exactly

648
00:24:40,310 --> 00:24:38,640
exactly so you know I certainly think

649
00:24:42,169 --> 00:24:40,320
about that the other thing I think about

650
00:24:44,210 --> 00:24:42,179
here is something that we said before

651
00:24:46,970 --> 00:24:44,220
many times

652
00:24:50,630 --> 00:24:46,980
and that's uh you know sort of not

653
00:24:52,970 --> 00:24:50,640
confusing uh the map for the territory

654
00:24:55,430 --> 00:24:52,980
you know so

655
00:24:57,110 --> 00:24:55,440
um and here you know that use a little

656
00:24:59,630 --> 00:24:57,120
different example you know we all are

657
00:25:04,190 --> 00:24:59,640
familiar with kind of the classic

658
00:25:06,110 --> 00:25:04,200
uh lab rat maze experiments you put the

659
00:25:07,730 --> 00:25:06,120
rat in the Maze and you you know kind of

660
00:25:10,310 --> 00:25:07,740
let it do its thing

661
00:25:12,169 --> 00:25:10,320
and you're studying Its Behavior how it

662
00:25:14,510 --> 00:25:12,179
reacts to certain stimuli it's looking

663
00:25:16,610 --> 00:25:14,520
for a treat for example

664
00:25:20,210 --> 00:25:16,620
but it's essentially saying well

665
00:25:22,909 --> 00:25:20,220
the maze is in fact reality the way

666
00:25:26,149 --> 00:25:22,919
reality actually is it's confusing the

667
00:25:30,130 --> 00:25:26,159
maze for the way things actually are in

668
00:25:34,909 --> 00:25:30,140
the World At Large uh the maze is very

669
00:25:38,029 --> 00:25:34,919
carefully constructed crafted ordered uh

670
00:25:41,690 --> 00:25:38,039
Etc and obeys very specific kinds of

671
00:25:44,510 --> 00:25:41,700
rules and the World At Large isn't like

672
00:25:47,570 --> 00:25:44,520
that at all uh there are many many more

673
00:25:50,769 --> 00:25:47,580
variables than than that uh their play

674
00:25:53,390 --> 00:25:50,779
in The Maze and uh to be able to take

675
00:25:56,450 --> 00:25:53,400
learnings from The Maze and say well the

676
00:25:59,149 --> 00:25:56,460
world is just like this is is is a bit

677
00:26:00,830 --> 00:25:59,159
of an assumptive leap right it's it's

678
00:26:02,750 --> 00:26:00,840
not it's not to say that there isn't

679
00:26:06,769 --> 00:26:02,760
some degree of correlation and I think

680
00:26:09,350 --> 00:26:06,779
that that the correlative power is is

681
00:26:11,269 --> 00:26:09,360
very you know it's it's immense right

682
00:26:13,610 --> 00:26:11,279
we've seen a lot of instances where

683
00:26:15,830 --> 00:26:13,620
science has been able to reproduce

684
00:26:17,810 --> 00:26:15,840
things through the scientific method and

685
00:26:19,310 --> 00:26:17,820
apply them at large and it's very very

686
00:26:21,289 --> 00:26:19,320
powerful

687
00:26:23,870 --> 00:26:21,299
um but just because it can do that

688
00:26:26,570 --> 00:26:23,880
doesn't mean that it that that's

689
00:26:28,310 --> 00:26:26,580
actually how reality works in the

690
00:26:30,590 --> 00:26:28,320
broadest sense of the term it just means

691
00:26:33,470 --> 00:26:30,600
that we've gotten really good at that

692
00:26:35,630 --> 00:26:33,480
one sort of manipulation

693
00:26:37,430 --> 00:26:35,640
um and so you know those are the things

694
00:26:40,190 --> 00:26:37,440
that kind of swirl around my brain when

695
00:26:42,830 --> 00:26:40,200
I when I think about this issue that uh

696
00:26:44,510 --> 00:26:42,840
that that it that there is a benefit to

697
00:26:46,669 --> 00:26:44,520
doing it to applying the scientific

698
00:26:48,409 --> 00:26:46,679
method to the phenomena and I think we

699
00:26:51,049 --> 00:26:48,419
should and we are and there are people

700
00:26:52,130 --> 00:26:51,059
who are doing that but My worry is is

701
00:26:56,330 --> 00:26:52,140
that

702
00:26:58,250 --> 00:26:56,340
bear on this just really aren't the

703
00:27:01,070 --> 00:26:58,260
right tools that will ultimately help us

704
00:27:03,409 --> 00:27:01,080
understand what's actually happening uh

705
00:27:05,210 --> 00:27:03,419
and quite frankly uh we might we may not

706
00:27:07,789 --> 00:27:05,220
have the tools or ever have enough tools

707
00:27:08,750 --> 00:27:07,799
to really get our arms around this at

708
00:27:11,029 --> 00:27:08,760
least then

709
00:27:13,010 --> 00:27:11,039
the lifetime that you and I consider to

710
00:27:15,590 --> 00:27:13,020
be you know this incarnation of our

711
00:27:19,250 --> 00:27:15,600
Human Experience

712
00:27:21,710 --> 00:27:19,260
right and when I think of here is is

713
00:27:23,750 --> 00:27:21,720
you know the fact that

714
00:27:25,730 --> 00:27:23,760
most of the general public is going

715
00:27:28,130 --> 00:27:25,740
around assuming that

716
00:27:30,529 --> 00:27:28,140
we have most of the laws quote unquote

717
00:27:32,630 --> 00:27:30,539
of nature figured out and we just you

718
00:27:35,810 --> 00:27:32,640
know polishing at this point right just

719
00:27:37,490 --> 00:27:35,820
a crossing the t's and Dot in the eyes

720
00:27:40,130 --> 00:27:37,500
which again we've talked before about

721
00:27:42,950 --> 00:27:40,140
the irony is that that same sort of

722
00:27:44,570 --> 00:27:42,960
hubris was in play prior to the quantum

723
00:27:46,269 --> 00:27:44,580
Revolution right really people really

724
00:27:49,130 --> 00:27:46,279
thought that was just you know

725
00:27:50,330 --> 00:27:49,140
fine-tuning the details the fine print

726
00:27:51,590 --> 00:27:50,340
but everything else was pretty much

727
00:27:54,470 --> 00:27:51,600
figured out

728
00:27:56,690 --> 00:27:54,480
so when people talk about academics

729
00:27:59,390 --> 00:27:56,700
coming in they assume again that we have

730
00:28:02,330 --> 00:27:59,400
emotionally complete model of reality

731
00:28:06,049 --> 00:28:02,340
and therefore finally we can see how the

732
00:28:08,149 --> 00:28:06,059
UFO phenomenon fits within it right

733
00:28:11,029 --> 00:28:08,159
but as you pointed out

734
00:28:13,850 --> 00:28:11,039
there's a big difference between

735
00:28:17,570 --> 00:28:13,860
being able to observe how nature behaves

736
00:28:20,090 --> 00:28:17,580
what we call nature versus what nature

737
00:28:21,470 --> 00:28:20,100
actually is underlyingly and what

738
00:28:23,870 --> 00:28:21,480
science does really well what the

739
00:28:26,090 --> 00:28:23,880
scientific method does really well is it

740
00:28:29,330 --> 00:28:26,100
begins with some assumptions and then it

741
00:28:31,490 --> 00:28:29,340
says what can we play with here in terms

742
00:28:32,870 --> 00:28:31,500
of the variables to produce a certain

743
00:28:35,210 --> 00:28:32,880
outcome

744
00:28:37,549 --> 00:28:35,220
you can do that without having any idea

745
00:28:39,289 --> 00:28:37,559
of actually what is underlying

746
00:28:41,570 --> 00:28:39,299
underpinning all of those variables

747
00:28:44,690 --> 00:28:41,580
right you could before someone had ever

748
00:28:47,750 --> 00:28:44,700
heard about a waterfall and rain clouds

749
00:28:50,810 --> 00:28:47,760
and precipitation uh and this sort of

750
00:28:53,029 --> 00:28:50,820
convective way that you know climate

751
00:28:55,669 --> 00:28:53,039
works on the planet well before knowing

752
00:28:59,029 --> 00:28:55,679
any of that they could see that hey if

753
00:29:01,730 --> 00:28:59,039
we go Downstream we can gather water

754
00:29:04,730 --> 00:29:01,740
right so you can observe that behavior

755
00:29:06,169 --> 00:29:04,740
and you know you can say hey it's a good

756
00:29:07,730 --> 00:29:06,179
idea to like build our village right

757
00:29:09,470 --> 00:29:07,740
here by the water because it gives us so

758
00:29:11,990 --> 00:29:09,480
many things that we need for for life

759
00:29:14,090 --> 00:29:12,000
and even for conveying things along we

760
00:29:16,730 --> 00:29:14,100
need to send it Downstream but you can

761
00:29:19,250 --> 00:29:16,740
do all of that and have really effective

762
00:29:20,810 --> 00:29:19,260
you know changes to your civilization as

763
00:29:23,450 --> 00:29:20,820
a result without really understanding

764
00:29:24,889 --> 00:29:23,460
any of the mechanisms that provide that

765
00:29:26,630 --> 00:29:24,899
water to begin with and that's kind of

766
00:29:28,010 --> 00:29:26,640
what we're doing

767
00:29:30,470 --> 00:29:28,020
and

768
00:29:31,549 --> 00:29:30,480
on top of that because that's all we're

769
00:29:32,870 --> 00:29:31,559
really concerned about that's what

770
00:29:35,029 --> 00:29:32,880
really most people are concerned about

771
00:29:36,590 --> 00:29:35,039
is how does it change our lives and if

772
00:29:39,230 --> 00:29:36,600
it makes our lives better and easier

773
00:29:40,909 --> 00:29:39,240
then hey you guys are like the new

774
00:29:43,669 --> 00:29:40,919
priests you know like you're in charge

775
00:29:45,649 --> 00:29:43,679
you did a good job you say it's because

776
00:29:47,630 --> 00:29:45,659
there's a physical reality that

777
00:29:49,610 --> 00:29:47,640
underpins everything works for me

778
00:29:52,610 --> 00:29:49,620
because you know I've got a microwave

779
00:29:54,470 --> 00:29:52,620
oven and a cell phone and blah blah

780
00:29:57,710 --> 00:29:54,480
but of course those questions are very

781
00:29:59,389 --> 00:29:57,720
much in play and not only that but

782
00:30:01,909 --> 00:29:59,399
there's mounting evidence and there has

783
00:30:04,130 --> 00:30:01,919
been for a very long time that actually

784
00:30:06,470 --> 00:30:04,140
physicalism has a final fundamental

785
00:30:08,029 --> 00:30:06,480
model is flawed so that's very very

786
00:30:09,649 --> 00:30:08,039
interesting in terms of the timing here

787
00:30:12,409 --> 00:30:09,659
right because we're talking about

788
00:30:15,950 --> 00:30:12,419
bringing in academics to see how the

789
00:30:18,710 --> 00:30:15,960
phenomenon fits within this model when

790
00:30:20,029 --> 00:30:18,720
you know secretly behind closed doors

791
00:30:21,769 --> 00:30:20,039
people are saying well the model is

792
00:30:24,289 --> 00:30:21,779
flawed you know the model is actually

793
00:30:25,970 --> 00:30:24,299
not tenable so see what I'm saying it's

794
00:30:27,649 --> 00:30:25,980
kind of a weird erosion happening from

795
00:30:29,450 --> 00:30:27,659
both ends

796
00:30:30,889 --> 00:30:29,460
um

797
00:30:32,389 --> 00:30:30,899
you know and then you've got you've got

798
00:30:34,610 --> 00:30:32,399
some things that you can actually can

799
00:30:37,190 --> 00:30:34,620
test I want to make this clear

800
00:30:39,590 --> 00:30:37,200
again parapsychological research you

801
00:30:40,789 --> 00:30:39,600
know Dean Raiden and ions has done some

802
00:30:43,250 --> 00:30:40,799
great work

803
00:30:45,230 --> 00:30:43,260
and showing how you can make a

804
00:30:47,450 --> 00:30:45,240
prediction you can set up an experiment

805
00:30:49,370 --> 00:30:47,460
and you can demonstrate it right

806
00:30:51,470 --> 00:30:49,380
again what's what's shocking about that

807
00:30:54,649 --> 00:30:51,480
is that there's the evidence exists and

808
00:30:56,690 --> 00:30:54,659
it hasn't really eroded our faith and

809
00:30:58,310 --> 00:30:56,700
physicalism both uh within the

810
00:31:00,470 --> 00:30:58,320
scientific community and with the you

811
00:31:02,570 --> 00:31:00,480
know Society at large even though it

812
00:31:03,830 --> 00:31:02,580
should have so these are some things to

813
00:31:05,990 --> 00:31:03,840
keep in mind

814
00:31:08,810 --> 00:31:06,000
before we even get into what I think

815
00:31:10,909 --> 00:31:08,820
we'll get into next which is what are

816
00:31:12,769 --> 00:31:10,919
the actual

817
00:31:14,210 --> 00:31:12,779
things we notice with the phenomena

818
00:31:15,710 --> 00:31:14,220
right what kind of

819
00:31:18,350 --> 00:31:15,720
um observations are Mabel come

820
00:31:20,690 --> 00:31:18,360
experiences do people have and how might

821
00:31:22,730 --> 00:31:20,700
that or might that not fit well with

822
00:31:24,830 --> 00:31:22,740
something you could test in a lab kind

823
00:31:28,430 --> 00:31:24,840
of situation

824
00:31:31,909 --> 00:31:28,440
yeah and and along those lines I

825
00:31:34,190 --> 00:31:31,919
I think here at two about the ferry

826
00:31:37,610 --> 00:31:34,200
the very personal nature of the

827
00:31:39,590 --> 00:31:37,620
experience uh that it's

828
00:31:41,690 --> 00:31:39,600
it's not like

829
00:31:44,630 --> 00:31:41,700
the experience of going to an ATM

830
00:31:46,250 --> 00:31:44,640
machine right which uh but for the kids

831
00:31:47,810 --> 00:31:46,260
around here in ATM is where you go and

832
00:31:49,370 --> 00:31:47,820
you put in some numbers and a card and

833
00:31:51,409 --> 00:31:49,380
you get something called Cash it's made

834
00:31:53,090 --> 00:31:51,419
of paper and you carry it in a wallet

835
00:31:55,250 --> 00:31:53,100
and you pay thing you use that to pay to

836
00:31:57,889 --> 00:31:55,260
buy things uh nobody uses that anymore

837
00:32:00,409 --> 00:31:57,899
but every time you use an ATM it's the

838
00:32:01,909 --> 00:32:00,419
same experience right it's it's you

839
00:32:03,649 --> 00:32:01,919
punch in they put in the car punch the

840
00:32:06,110 --> 00:32:03,659
number get the cash and walk away that's

841
00:32:08,090 --> 00:32:06,120
pretty much it but the nature of the

842
00:32:11,510 --> 00:32:08,100
experience is that we hear about with

843
00:32:14,570 --> 00:32:11,520
the phenomena are not at all the same

844
00:32:16,549 --> 00:32:14,580
you know from person to person uh and

845
00:32:20,029 --> 00:32:16,559
there are many many factors that go into

846
00:32:22,490 --> 00:32:20,039
that uh the the feelings are not the

847
00:32:24,830 --> 00:32:22,500
same the uh the reported experience or

848
00:32:27,409 --> 00:32:24,840
or resemblance or whatever it is their

849
00:32:29,330 --> 00:32:27,419
experience is not the same and it kind

850
00:32:33,289 --> 00:32:29,340
of begs the question and we've touched

851
00:32:36,470 --> 00:32:33,299
on this in in different ways and that's

852
00:32:38,930 --> 00:32:36,480
you know what what's really happening

853
00:32:39,769 --> 00:32:38,940
here and is it is it something that we

854
00:32:43,310 --> 00:32:39,779
can

855
00:32:45,649 --> 00:32:43,320
uh point to in the way we could describe

856
00:32:48,649 --> 00:32:45,659
ATM machines or is it something that is

857
00:32:50,990 --> 00:32:48,659
Meaningful and designed in its very

858
00:32:53,169 --> 00:32:51,000
nature to be meaningful

859
00:32:57,590 --> 00:32:53,179
only to that person

860
00:32:59,330 --> 00:32:57,600
uh it's it's a lot like the way to uh

861
00:33:01,549 --> 00:32:59,340
I'm gonna take a little bit of a tangent

862
00:33:03,409 --> 00:33:01,559
here but growing up being the son of a

863
00:33:05,330 --> 00:33:03,419
minister you know I would sit in inside

864
00:33:06,950 --> 00:33:05,340
Church week after week and listen to

865
00:33:09,889 --> 00:33:06,960
sermon after sermon

866
00:33:12,830 --> 00:33:09,899
and in my dad I thought was an excellent

867
00:33:14,690 --> 00:33:12,840
preacher uh and he is uh but one of the

868
00:33:16,669 --> 00:33:14,700
beautiful things about the sermon if you

869
00:33:18,950 --> 00:33:16,679
hear good preaching is it's not

870
00:33:22,070 --> 00:33:18,960
necessarily what is in the sermon it's

871
00:33:25,610 --> 00:33:22,080
what it elicits in The Listener it's the

872
00:33:27,470 --> 00:33:25,620
experience that has evoked by listening

873
00:33:29,149 --> 00:33:27,480
to that sermon

874
00:33:31,190 --> 00:33:29,159
and of course you hope that it

875
00:33:32,750 --> 00:33:31,200
translates into some change in that

876
00:33:35,870 --> 00:33:32,760
individual's life

877
00:33:37,669 --> 00:33:35,880
right and so I think a lot of the

878
00:33:40,669 --> 00:33:37,679
phenomena a lot of the experience that

879
00:33:44,830 --> 00:33:40,679
we hear about is much like that it is it

880
00:33:47,389 --> 00:33:44,840
is uh evocative it is not necessarily uh

881
00:33:50,690 --> 00:33:47,399
designed in a reproducible way because

882
00:33:53,870 --> 00:33:50,700
it it it's it's spontaneous and

883
00:33:56,389 --> 00:33:53,880
responsive to who that person is and who

884
00:33:58,009 --> 00:33:56,399
they are in that moment not only in that

885
00:34:00,710 --> 00:33:58,019
moment too we've talked about this quite

886
00:34:03,289 --> 00:34:00,720
a bit but even throughout the course of

887
00:34:06,230 --> 00:34:03,299
their life right so it's that funny way

888
00:34:08,270 --> 00:34:06,240
that time works where you can re-examine

889
00:34:09,530 --> 00:34:08,280
and experience 20 years later and say

890
00:34:12,530 --> 00:34:09,540
aha

891
00:34:16,250 --> 00:34:12,540
this is what it really means I needed to

892
00:34:19,129 --> 00:34:16,260
live this part of life to fold that

893
00:34:20,930 --> 00:34:19,139
experience back in and really understand

894
00:34:23,389 --> 00:34:20,940
what it was about

895
00:34:26,030 --> 00:34:23,399
uh it but it also meant something to me

896
00:34:28,909 --> 00:34:26,040
when I was 20 just as much as it means

897
00:34:32,450 --> 00:34:28,919
something to me now that I'm 60 and it's

898
00:34:33,829 --> 00:34:32,460
richer for it both both then and now

899
00:34:35,930 --> 00:34:33,839
right see what I'm saying like it's it's

900
00:34:38,869 --> 00:34:35,940
that there's a dynamism to it that

901
00:34:41,889 --> 00:34:38,879
doesn't exist in the kind of linear neat

902
00:34:45,129 --> 00:34:41,899
packaged way that our our scientific

903
00:34:48,109 --> 00:34:45,139
experimentation typically functions

904
00:34:50,750 --> 00:34:48,119
indeed and what you just talked about

905
00:34:52,190 --> 00:34:50,760
there reminds me of my discussion about

906
00:34:54,169 --> 00:34:52,200
Jacques valet's control system

907
00:34:56,450 --> 00:34:54,179
hypothesis in the most recent episode of

908
00:34:58,849 --> 00:34:56,460
point of convergence because he made

909
00:35:02,150 --> 00:34:58,859
that very point that the question about

910
00:35:03,290 --> 00:35:02,160
the the reality of UFOs kind of misses

911
00:35:05,390 --> 00:35:03,300
the point

912
00:35:08,570 --> 00:35:05,400
it only needs to be real enough for

913
00:35:10,849 --> 00:35:08,580
people to believe it's real because if

914
00:35:13,790 --> 00:35:10,859
the ultimate goal is to change Behavior

915
00:35:16,430 --> 00:35:13,800
so taking his notion here that

916
00:35:18,589 --> 00:35:16,440
this is about on the most macro scale

917
00:35:21,109 --> 00:35:18,599
some sort of other intelligence or

918
00:35:23,450 --> 00:35:21,119
groups of intelligences trying to mold

919
00:35:26,450 --> 00:35:23,460
our civilization trying to evolve our

920
00:35:28,910 --> 00:35:26,460
Collective Consciousness then really

921
00:35:30,589 --> 00:35:28,920
the reality of the tools they use the

922
00:35:32,210 --> 00:35:30,599
mechanisms they use in order to

923
00:35:34,430 --> 00:35:32,220
accomplish that goal

924
00:35:36,710 --> 00:35:34,440
kind of as a secondary right the main

925
00:35:39,170 --> 00:35:36,720
point is how do you do it in such a way

926
00:35:42,410 --> 00:35:39,180
is to mold the the trajectory of the

927
00:35:44,089 --> 00:35:42,420
civilization and so his point is that we

928
00:35:46,609 --> 00:35:44,099
shouldn't ask whether or not UFOs are

929
00:35:49,250 --> 00:35:46,619
real necessarily what we should ask is

930
00:35:52,010 --> 00:35:49,260
are they real enough to change Behavior

931
00:35:54,530 --> 00:35:52,020
and this ticket Beyond UFOs let's go

932
00:35:56,690 --> 00:35:54,540
back into religious history right and

933
00:35:59,510 --> 00:35:56,700
and even things like fairy lore which he

934
00:36:02,089 --> 00:35:59,520
again has done a great job in that kind

935
00:36:04,370 --> 00:36:02,099
of comparative analysis with medieval

936
00:36:06,950 --> 00:36:04,380
fairy lore in Europe and you know

937
00:36:09,170 --> 00:36:06,960
ancient religious traditions and in each

938
00:36:10,849 --> 00:36:09,180
of those cases let's look past the The

939
00:36:13,130 --> 00:36:10,859
Superficial veneer

940
00:36:15,890 --> 00:36:13,140
and ask what was the nature of the

941
00:36:18,530 --> 00:36:15,900
experience and how did it change

942
00:36:20,569 --> 00:36:18,540
Behavior how to even change

943
00:36:22,790 --> 00:36:20,579
that group's understanding of what

944
00:36:24,410 --> 00:36:22,800
reality is right and what they should do

945
00:36:25,849 --> 00:36:24,420
it how they should live these are the

946
00:36:28,730 --> 00:36:25,859
kinds of questions

947
00:36:30,950 --> 00:36:28,740
that valet really brought to the fore

948
00:36:32,510 --> 00:36:30,960
and those and if that's the kind of

949
00:36:34,490 --> 00:36:32,520
endeavor we're talking about here

950
00:36:38,030 --> 00:36:34,500
ultimately then that's very different

951
00:36:40,130 --> 00:36:38,040
than saying this is some sort of natural

952
00:36:42,050 --> 00:36:40,140
phenomena right because again this is

953
00:36:44,569 --> 00:36:42,060
the the point in science is that

954
00:36:47,630 --> 00:36:44,579
supposedly if this is happening in the

955
00:36:49,730 --> 00:36:47,640
natural world then it's based on lawful

956
00:36:51,829 --> 00:36:49,740
order and we should be able to observe

957
00:36:53,630 --> 00:36:51,839
it make predictions about it and prove

958
00:36:56,030 --> 00:36:53,640
its existence and how it relates to

959
00:36:58,250 --> 00:36:56,040
everything else in that natural world

960
00:37:01,130 --> 00:36:58,260
but again I think the Lays work really

961
00:37:04,069 --> 00:37:01,140
helped to demonstrate that

962
00:37:07,190 --> 00:37:04,079
that makes so many assumptions

963
00:37:08,750 --> 00:37:07,200
and you know this brings up to to mind

964
00:37:10,130 --> 00:37:08,760
one thing I thought we could get into

965
00:37:13,550 --> 00:37:10,140
and I know that you've read this as well

966
00:37:15,050 --> 00:37:13,560
uh three body problem so why don't you

967
00:37:18,230 --> 00:37:15,060
talk about that book and how that maybe

968
00:37:20,150 --> 00:37:18,240
impacts this this conversation as well

969
00:37:23,450 --> 00:37:20,160
yeah that's a great one so if you

970
00:37:26,410 --> 00:37:23,460
haven't read it uh three body problem uh

971
00:37:29,329 --> 00:37:26,420
from chicks and Liu excellent Trilogy

972
00:37:33,290 --> 00:37:29,339
that has also been made into a like a

973
00:37:34,490 --> 00:37:33,300
mini series on Chinese television so you

974
00:37:37,430 --> 00:37:34,500
can think you can find that around the

975
00:37:39,290 --> 00:37:37,440
internet if you're looking for it but um

976
00:37:42,770 --> 00:37:39,300
it plays a lot of

977
00:37:45,290 --> 00:37:42,780
different ideas and themes around what

978
00:37:47,569 --> 00:37:45,300
it would mean to be in touch with

979
00:37:48,770 --> 00:37:47,579
you know non-human intelligence alien

980
00:37:50,569 --> 00:37:48,780
intelligence

981
00:37:54,290 --> 00:37:50,579
and I think kind of challenges some of

982
00:37:55,730 --> 00:37:54,300
those classical assumptions and it plays

983
00:37:58,010 --> 00:37:55,740
with

984
00:38:02,329 --> 00:37:58,020
the way in which we

985
00:38:05,089 --> 00:38:02,339
kind of normally like understand uh what

986
00:38:07,069 --> 00:38:05,099
should happen or what can happen to the

987
00:38:08,630 --> 00:38:07,079
degree that what this intelligence does

988
00:38:10,849 --> 00:38:08,640
and does essentially kind of like

989
00:38:12,290 --> 00:38:10,859
remotely from a distance and apologies

990
00:38:14,329 --> 00:38:12,300
if you haven't read it and don't want to

991
00:38:16,550 --> 00:38:14,339
know this is the place to hit the pause

992
00:38:18,710 --> 00:38:16,560
buttons the episode and you know fast

993
00:38:21,170 --> 00:38:18,720
forward 20 minutes or something

994
00:38:24,410 --> 00:38:21,180
um but essentially there's a tell

995
00:38:29,030 --> 00:38:24,420
intelligence messes with the scientists

996
00:38:32,329 --> 00:38:29,040
of of humanity and kind of confronts

997
00:38:34,609 --> 00:38:32,339
them and confounds them uh with with

998
00:38:36,589 --> 00:38:34,619
information that just doesn't fit in to

999
00:38:38,329 --> 00:38:36,599
the kind of Paradigm that that they're

1000
00:38:40,790 --> 00:38:38,339
used to seeing and it often drives them

1001
00:38:43,490 --> 00:38:40,800
mad basically kind of that they kind of

1002
00:38:45,109 --> 00:38:43,500
lose uh their sanity

1003
00:38:47,750 --> 00:38:45,119
um so it's in a way it's almost like a

1004
00:38:51,050 --> 00:38:47,760
psychic attack on Humanity because it it

1005
00:38:53,150 --> 00:38:51,060
it's something that disrupts the the

1006
00:38:55,550 --> 00:38:53,160
ways in which we can understand what is

1007
00:38:58,310 --> 00:38:55,560
possible or is not possible

1008
00:39:00,470 --> 00:38:58,320
um and and to the outside Observer this

1009
00:39:01,790 --> 00:39:00,480
this appears as Madness right it just

1010
00:39:02,930 --> 00:39:01,800
appears as there's some kind of

1011
00:39:06,829 --> 00:39:02,940
psychosis

1012
00:39:08,329 --> 00:39:06,839
happening here and uh you know that's

1013
00:39:10,250 --> 00:39:08,339
all there is to it but then the SEC

1014
00:39:13,250 --> 00:39:10,260
there's the as they get Savvy to what's

1015
00:39:16,069 --> 00:39:13,260
really happening they the kind of powers

1016
00:39:17,510 --> 00:39:16,079
that be have to make a decision to sort

1017
00:39:21,349 --> 00:39:17,520
of covertly

1018
00:39:23,030 --> 00:39:21,359
uh you know sort of uh respond to this

1019
00:39:24,349 --> 00:39:23,040
this hacking if you will kind of a way

1020
00:39:26,990 --> 00:39:24,359
to think about it like a hacking of the

1021
00:39:29,829 --> 00:39:27,000
human of humanity uh covertly responds

1022
00:39:33,050 --> 00:39:29,839
to it by this incredible like layered

1023
00:39:35,150 --> 00:39:33,060
secrecy and and uh separation of

1024
00:39:36,950 --> 00:39:35,160
intelligences and people who are who are

1025
00:39:39,589 --> 00:39:36,960
tasked with solving these issues and

1026
00:39:41,210 --> 00:39:39,599
because they can't reveal their hand to

1027
00:39:43,910 --> 00:39:41,220
this uh this alien intelligence that

1028
00:39:45,470 --> 00:39:43,920
essentially has kind of omnipresence uh

1029
00:39:47,510 --> 00:39:45,480
to everything that's happening on the

1030
00:39:48,670 --> 00:39:47,520
planet so there has to be this like

1031
00:39:51,650 --> 00:39:48,680
coordinated

1032
00:39:54,470 --> 00:39:51,660
subterfuge so that it doesn't know what

1033
00:39:56,569 --> 00:39:54,480
we're planning to do in response to it

1034
00:39:57,770 --> 00:39:56,579
um but it's a great example again of

1035
00:39:59,870 --> 00:39:57,780
what we've been talking about here and

1036
00:40:02,930 --> 00:39:59,880
that that's that uh the conventional

1037
00:40:06,829 --> 00:40:02,940
means of of understanding and relating

1038
00:40:09,290 --> 00:40:06,839
to and and counteracting and like all

1039
00:40:11,690 --> 00:40:09,300
those things sort of fail and if you

1040
00:40:13,550 --> 00:40:11,700
continue to try those methods and and

1041
00:40:16,490 --> 00:40:13,560
get and understand it through those

1042
00:40:18,410 --> 00:40:16,500
methods It ultimately leads to Madness

1043
00:40:20,569 --> 00:40:18,420
and that's the same eventually what we

1044
00:40:23,329 --> 00:40:20,579
are seeing here too and what we've we've

1045
00:40:25,970 --> 00:40:23,339
also seen with some experiencers right

1046
00:40:29,450 --> 00:40:25,980
who who continue to try to force that

1047
00:40:30,829 --> 00:40:29,460
experience into a certain box and the

1048
00:40:33,530 --> 00:40:30,839
harder it is that they force it into

1049
00:40:36,230 --> 00:40:33,540
that box the more things begin to break

1050
00:40:38,329 --> 00:40:36,240
and the more that they can't cope with

1051
00:40:41,690 --> 00:40:38,339
whatever it is that is happening so that

1052
00:40:43,790 --> 00:40:41,700
there has to be a degree of ontological

1053
00:40:46,310 --> 00:40:43,800
shock which takes place both on the

1054
00:40:48,109 --> 00:40:46,320
individual level but there's also an

1055
00:40:50,569 --> 00:40:48,119
ontological shock that is happening

1056
00:40:52,310 --> 00:40:50,579
societally right and so I think that's

1057
00:40:53,690 --> 00:40:52,320
there are two layers here we kind of

1058
00:40:55,310 --> 00:40:53,700
want to think about and that is the

1059
00:40:57,589 --> 00:40:55,320
individual layer because it is a very

1060
00:41:00,230 --> 00:40:57,599
personal experience but we have to think

1061
00:41:02,569 --> 00:41:00,240
about it macroscopically as well how

1062
00:41:04,010 --> 00:41:02,579
does the phenomena impact change

1063
00:41:07,310 --> 00:41:04,020
interact

1064
00:41:10,069 --> 00:41:07,320
Humanities on a societal level and and

1065
00:41:13,790 --> 00:41:10,079
there is an interplay between the two

1066
00:41:16,069 --> 00:41:13,800
but but but it is actively happening on

1067
00:41:18,349 --> 00:41:16,079
both layers and has to and needs to and

1068
00:41:21,530 --> 00:41:18,359
and if we're not going to understand it

1069
00:41:23,990 --> 00:41:21,540
unless it does so I think that that's a

1070
00:41:26,750 --> 00:41:24,000
big thing here right it's not just like

1071
00:41:28,730 --> 00:41:26,760
you know I went out into the field and I

1072
00:41:30,650 --> 00:41:28,740
found this rock and uh you know it's a

1073
00:41:32,750 --> 00:41:30,660
discovery and it turns out it's a fossil

1074
00:41:34,430 --> 00:41:32,760
you know as a fossil this creature that

1075
00:41:36,170 --> 00:41:34,440
that nobody knew about and I bring it

1076
00:41:37,730 --> 00:41:36,180
back to the village and on you know they

1077
00:41:39,770 --> 00:41:37,740
name it after me whatever it's not quite

1078
00:41:42,829 --> 00:41:39,780
like that it has to happen

1079
00:41:46,609 --> 00:41:42,839
on on that level but also on a level

1080
00:41:49,310 --> 00:41:46,619
that impacts that that culture

1081
00:41:51,410 --> 00:41:49,320
um it's and and simultaneously I would

1082
00:41:53,510 --> 00:41:51,420
say and I would argue that that is what

1083
00:41:55,130 --> 00:41:53,520
is happening right now

1084
00:41:57,310 --> 00:41:55,140
yeah and getting back to the three body

1085
00:41:59,690 --> 00:41:57,320
problem one thing that's kind of

1086
00:42:01,970 --> 00:41:59,700
introduced to that to the mix in that

1087
00:42:04,130 --> 00:42:01,980
book or that series you see it's a

1088
00:42:07,250 --> 00:42:04,140
Trilogy is that

1089
00:42:09,710 --> 00:42:07,260
we assume that there's just natural

1090
00:42:11,569 --> 00:42:09,720
order that we can measure and we assume

1091
00:42:13,670 --> 00:42:11,579
more so we're so familiar with so

1092
00:42:16,490 --> 00:42:13,680
accustomed to being King of the Hill

1093
00:42:18,770 --> 00:42:16,500
right that the top dog that we don't

1094
00:42:21,050 --> 00:42:18,780
really take into consideration nor

1095
00:42:22,750 --> 00:42:21,060
really test for because we've never had

1096
00:42:25,550 --> 00:42:22,760
to so far

1097
00:42:27,890 --> 00:42:25,560
the possibility that some other

1098
00:42:29,450 --> 00:42:27,900
influence could actually mess with the

1099
00:42:32,030 --> 00:42:29,460
variables before we ever get to them

1100
00:42:34,370 --> 00:42:32,040
right and so this this again brings to

1101
00:42:37,250 --> 00:42:34,380
mind what you mentioned earlier

1102
00:42:39,829 --> 00:42:37,260
with skin waffle Ranch and John

1103
00:42:41,690 --> 00:42:39,839
Alexander coined this term precognitive

1104
00:42:44,270 --> 00:42:41,700
sentient phenomena

1105
00:42:45,950 --> 00:42:44,280
to describe what they observed when they

1106
00:42:47,810 --> 00:42:45,960
tried to follow the scientific method

1107
00:42:49,849 --> 00:42:47,820
right these are these were groups of

1108
00:42:51,890 --> 00:42:49,859
phds that got together and designed

1109
00:42:54,349 --> 00:42:51,900
experiments exactly as I described

1110
00:42:57,829 --> 00:42:54,359
earlier that would

1111
00:42:59,870 --> 00:42:57,839
present a hypothesis try to test it play

1112
00:43:01,370 --> 00:42:59,880
with the variables and see if you could

1113
00:43:03,770 --> 00:43:01,380
draw conclusions about what was

1114
00:43:05,270 --> 00:43:03,780
happening what was the nature of this

1115
00:43:07,370 --> 00:43:05,280
phenomena

1116
00:43:10,250 --> 00:43:07,380
but what they found is that not only

1117
00:43:13,849 --> 00:43:10,260
were variables tweaked before they could

1118
00:43:16,370 --> 00:43:13,859
even really run the experiment but that

1119
00:43:17,750 --> 00:43:16,380
this phenomena the intelligence behind

1120
00:43:20,450 --> 00:43:17,760
it seemed to know what they were going

1121
00:43:21,950 --> 00:43:20,460
to do seem to know how they were going

1122
00:43:23,870 --> 00:43:21,960
to design the experiment before they

1123
00:43:27,109 --> 00:43:23,880
even had a chance to run the experiment

1124
00:43:28,730 --> 00:43:27,119
which also brings to mind events in

1125
00:43:30,950 --> 00:43:28,740
history like for instance with the Tic

1126
00:43:33,230 --> 00:43:30,960
Tacs and the Nimitz how the Tic Tac

1127
00:43:35,329 --> 00:43:33,240
seemed to know the Rendezvous point

1128
00:43:37,490 --> 00:43:35,339
before the pilots even knew and before

1129
00:43:40,490 --> 00:43:37,500
maybe even the computer had supposedly

1130
00:43:43,970 --> 00:43:40,500
randomly right chosen the Rendezvous

1131
00:43:46,010 --> 00:43:43,980
point so these this shows you just

1132
00:43:47,329 --> 00:43:46,020
what's in play here the parameters kind

1133
00:43:50,690 --> 00:43:47,339
of getting blown out the usual

1134
00:43:53,750 --> 00:43:50,700
parameters right I mean this is what's

1135
00:43:56,089 --> 00:43:53,760
in play here is that we assume that

1136
00:43:58,309 --> 00:43:56,099
reality follows a certain

1137
00:44:01,370 --> 00:43:58,319
trajectory and exists within certain

1138
00:44:03,170 --> 00:44:01,380
parameters and we therefore look within

1139
00:44:05,150 --> 00:44:03,180
that scope

1140
00:44:06,530 --> 00:44:05,160
but one thing I pointed out and I

1141
00:44:08,390 --> 00:44:06,540
brought it up again in the most recent

1142
00:44:11,210 --> 00:44:08,400
episode of point of convergence

1143
00:44:12,770 --> 00:44:11,220
is that it's likely that a group coming

1144
00:44:14,809 --> 00:44:12,780
here from somewhere else is not going to

1145
00:44:17,210 --> 00:44:14,819
show up like Battlestar Galactica

1146
00:44:18,950 --> 00:44:17,220
that actually because different parts of

1147
00:44:21,890 --> 00:44:18,960
the cosmos are much older than other

1148
00:44:23,930 --> 00:44:21,900
parts and because of that you would have

1149
00:44:26,210 --> 00:44:23,940
had the chance for some civilizations to

1150
00:44:28,370 --> 00:44:26,220
be considerably older than us we're

1151
00:44:29,450 --> 00:44:28,380
talking like in the millions of years at

1152
00:44:31,490 --> 00:44:29,460
least right

1153
00:44:33,770 --> 00:44:31,500
potentially and when you think about

1154
00:44:36,530 --> 00:44:33,780
again how much we've progressed in 100

1155
00:44:38,870 --> 00:44:36,540
years we we began this conversation

1156
00:44:41,030 --> 00:44:38,880
talking about AI right computers didn't

1157
00:44:43,490 --> 00:44:41,040
exist a hundred years ago and yet now

1158
00:44:46,309 --> 00:44:43,500
it's at the place where it might either

1159
00:44:49,730 --> 00:44:46,319
solve most of our Global problems or

1160
00:44:51,170 --> 00:44:49,740
pitch us over the cliff into disaster

1161
00:44:52,730 --> 00:44:51,180
right I mean this has happened in a

1162
00:44:55,010 --> 00:44:52,740
hundred years so imagine what would

1163
00:44:56,870 --> 00:44:55,020
happen in a million years or or hundreds

1164
00:44:58,370 --> 00:44:56,880
of millions of years right basically it

1165
00:45:01,069 --> 00:44:58,380
gets beyond our scope we can't even

1166
00:45:02,870 --> 00:45:01,079
imagine at that point so to assume that

1167
00:45:04,849 --> 00:45:02,880
these others if they exist are going to

1168
00:45:08,150 --> 00:45:04,859
show up in ways that we can measure

1169
00:45:11,630 --> 00:45:08,160
through our current contemporary Notions

1170
00:45:13,730 --> 00:45:11,640
of physics is so laughable that I'm just

1171
00:45:16,130 --> 00:45:13,740
shocked it's not brought up more

1172
00:45:18,470 --> 00:45:16,140
you know it's just it's just a hubris

1173
00:45:19,910 --> 00:45:18,480
around that we we've seen how much our

1174
00:45:22,069 --> 00:45:19,920
understanding of the nature of reality

1175
00:45:25,430 --> 00:45:22,079
has changed since the quantum Revolution

1176
00:45:26,930 --> 00:45:25,440
which was only a hundred years ago so to

1177
00:45:29,150 --> 00:45:26,940
assume that we have now reached the

1178
00:45:30,770 --> 00:45:29,160
summit understanding of the natural

1179
00:45:32,870 --> 00:45:30,780
world and that that natural world

1180
00:45:36,770 --> 00:45:32,880
depicts Ultimate Reality on top of that

1181
00:45:39,589 --> 00:45:36,780
is is humorous to say the least

1182
00:45:42,349 --> 00:45:39,599
um we've talked about privately recently

1183
00:45:44,510 --> 00:45:42,359
the The Truman Show right and it gets

1184
00:45:46,550 --> 00:45:44,520
it's a good an analogy to what we're

1185
00:45:47,870 --> 00:45:46,560
talking about here because uh when we're

1186
00:45:50,630 --> 00:45:47,880
talking about that kind of advancement

1187
00:45:52,849 --> 00:45:50,640
it's very likely that everything that we

1188
00:45:57,589 --> 00:45:52,859
understand to be the case about reality

1189
00:45:59,089 --> 00:45:57,599
is is is there by design for us to at

1190
00:46:01,609 --> 00:45:59,099
least that

1191
00:46:03,290 --> 00:46:01,619
they're behind it uh in a sense and we

1192
00:46:06,230 --> 00:46:03,300
wouldn't be able to distinguish what

1193
00:46:07,910 --> 00:46:06,240
would be uh natural or unnatural or

1194
00:46:09,589 --> 00:46:07,920
whatever we would as this is all we've

1195
00:46:11,329 --> 00:46:09,599
ever known and that they've designed the

1196
00:46:13,190 --> 00:46:11,339
entire cage

1197
00:46:15,950 --> 00:46:13,200
um and it's not until the cage begins to

1198
00:46:17,390 --> 00:46:15,960
fall apart uh do you start going wait a

1199
00:46:20,569 --> 00:46:17,400
minute like something's off here

1200
00:46:23,809 --> 00:46:20,579
something strange and even then you're

1201
00:46:25,970 --> 00:46:23,819
stepping out into a complete unknown uh

1202
00:46:27,470 --> 00:46:25,980
when you leave that environment it would

1203
00:46:30,230 --> 00:46:27,480
look nothing like what you're used to

1204
00:46:32,089 --> 00:46:30,240
seeing or only approximately like I mean

1205
00:46:33,950 --> 00:46:32,099
this is what we hear right we hear from

1206
00:46:36,290 --> 00:46:33,960
experiencers who are saying this you

1207
00:46:38,990 --> 00:46:36,300
know that that like people who had ndes

1208
00:46:41,450 --> 00:46:39,000
or obes you know it's it's uh it's more

1209
00:46:43,670 --> 00:46:41,460
real than real uh it's uh there's a

1210
00:46:45,890 --> 00:46:43,680
Clarity to experience that that I

1211
00:46:47,870 --> 00:46:45,900
haven't experienced here they don't want

1212
00:46:50,390 --> 00:46:47,880
to come back into their bodies because

1213
00:46:53,089 --> 00:46:50,400
it feels like baggage it feels you know

1214
00:46:55,190 --> 00:46:53,099
just like it weighs them down and you

1215
00:46:57,470 --> 00:46:55,200
can understand why right if you've had

1216
00:46:59,030 --> 00:46:57,480
an experience that has that richness and

1217
00:47:02,210 --> 00:46:59,040
Fidelity why would you want to return to

1218
00:47:04,190 --> 00:47:02,220
something that doesn't and you and I

1219
00:47:06,530 --> 00:47:04,200
have talked about this as well and then

1220
00:47:09,829 --> 00:47:06,540
at this notion of time

1221
00:47:12,770 --> 00:47:09,839
and we often when you're young you think

1222
00:47:15,530 --> 00:47:12,780
a lifetime feels like forever and you

1223
00:47:17,510 --> 00:47:15,540
think if oh if 80 that just seems like

1224
00:47:20,089 --> 00:47:17,520
like he lives in eternity but as you

1225
00:47:22,750 --> 00:47:20,099
start getting closer to that time you

1226
00:47:25,130 --> 00:47:22,760
realize how short it all actually is

1227
00:47:27,170 --> 00:47:25,140
when you watch your kids grow up in the

1228
00:47:28,670 --> 00:47:27,180
blink of an eye you realize it's all so

1229
00:47:30,349 --> 00:47:28,680
very short

1230
00:47:33,109 --> 00:47:30,359
and

1231
00:47:34,790 --> 00:47:33,119
when you compare that shortness to thing

1232
00:47:36,349 --> 00:47:34,800
something like the span of a million or

1233
00:47:38,990 --> 00:47:36,359
100 million years if you're a

1234
00:47:41,450 --> 00:47:39,000
civilization that lives or has lived and

1235
00:47:43,730 --> 00:47:41,460
occupies that space

1236
00:47:45,530 --> 00:47:43,740
this little 80-year sliver is

1237
00:47:48,050 --> 00:47:45,540
essentially zero it's like a rounding

1238
00:47:50,510 --> 00:47:48,060
error you know and and it wouldn't it be

1239
00:47:52,609 --> 00:47:50,520
great if you could condense experience

1240
00:47:54,770 --> 00:47:52,619
and learning into that kind of tiny

1241
00:47:57,349 --> 00:47:54,780
little sliver and say you know what I I

1242
00:47:58,910 --> 00:47:57,359
came out of that experience and uh I'm

1243
00:48:00,710 --> 00:47:58,920
glad I had it because it allowed me to

1244
00:48:01,910 --> 00:48:00,720
fix this and well you know what I still

1245
00:48:05,210 --> 00:48:01,920
got some more work to do throw me back

1246
00:48:06,650 --> 00:48:05,220
back in I'm gonna fix it some more so uh

1247
00:48:08,210 --> 00:48:06,660
you know that's a little bit of a

1248
00:48:11,510 --> 00:48:08,220
tangent there but just I think getting

1249
00:48:13,510 --> 00:48:11,520
into this notion of scope and scale it

1250
00:48:16,309 --> 00:48:13,520
does change the way that we think about

1251
00:48:19,309 --> 00:48:16,319
the phenomena and the edges the borders

1252
00:48:21,050 --> 00:48:19,319
of what we know to be possible uh and

1253
00:48:23,329 --> 00:48:21,060
and it should it should confront us with

1254
00:48:26,030 --> 00:48:23,339
those things because our understanding

1255
00:48:27,770 --> 00:48:26,040
now like it's it's absolutely ridiculous

1256
00:48:30,650 --> 00:48:27,780
to think the way we understand the world

1257
00:48:32,569 --> 00:48:30,660
now is the way that it actually is uh

1258
00:48:34,250 --> 00:48:32,579
yet every generation seems to approach

1259
00:48:35,569 --> 00:48:34,260
it that way and I think that I don't

1260
00:48:37,130 --> 00:48:35,579
know that's just folly or we just

1261
00:48:39,410 --> 00:48:37,140
haven't lived long enough to learn the

1262
00:48:41,270 --> 00:48:39,420
lessons of of the prior generation that

1263
00:48:43,130 --> 00:48:41,280
would tell us otherwise

1264
00:48:46,010 --> 00:48:43,140
right into use your analogy of The

1265
00:48:50,809 --> 00:48:48,890
what's interesting there is that yes the

1266
00:48:53,329 --> 00:48:50,819
Revelation is that wait a second this is

1267
00:48:55,670 --> 00:48:53,339
all a setup you know this is a a false

1268
00:48:57,470 --> 00:48:55,680
world that is just about producing this

1269
00:48:59,450 --> 00:48:57,480
TV show about this guy's life right so

1270
00:49:01,370 --> 00:48:59,460
he thinks that this is all real life

1271
00:49:03,290 --> 00:49:01,380
quote unquote but then he realizes this

1272
00:49:05,870 --> 00:49:03,300
is it's all a stage play basically for

1273
00:49:09,170 --> 00:49:05,880
for people to consume uh for their

1274
00:49:11,450 --> 00:49:09,180
entertainment but in that scenario he's

1275
00:49:13,250 --> 00:49:11,460
basically still entering into a larger

1276
00:49:15,290 --> 00:49:13,260
world that follows the same laws right

1277
00:49:17,510 --> 00:49:15,300
we're talking about heroes of the entire

1278
00:49:20,150 --> 00:49:17,520
thing even the laws quote unquote of

1279
00:49:22,309 --> 00:49:20,160
nature are part of the stage play right

1280
00:49:24,470 --> 00:49:22,319
and that's one thing that academics are

1281
00:49:26,690 --> 00:49:24,480
not asking right that's not that's not a

1282
00:49:28,790 --> 00:49:26,700
question in the scope right but that's

1283
00:49:31,490 --> 00:49:28,800
really what we're getting at here so I

1284
00:49:33,890 --> 00:49:31,500
wanted to bring up some specific cases

1285
00:49:37,130 --> 00:49:33,900
or situations that have been observed by

1286
00:49:39,470 --> 00:49:37,140
experiencers that really do call into

1287
00:49:41,210 --> 00:49:39,480
question whether or not these laws of

1288
00:49:43,910 --> 00:49:41,220
nature might not just be

1289
00:49:46,069 --> 00:49:43,920
part of a rule set of a local kind of

1290
00:49:47,990 --> 00:49:46,079
virtual or simulated reality or a

1291
00:49:50,450 --> 00:49:48,000
construct right

1292
00:49:52,670 --> 00:49:50,460
so for instance

1293
00:49:54,950 --> 00:49:52,680
Joseph Brooks has talked about this this

1294
00:49:56,450 --> 00:49:54,960
notion of perhaps these craft aren't

1295
00:49:59,089 --> 00:49:56,460
actually in the sky sometimes it's just

1296
00:50:01,309 --> 00:49:59,099
a virtual uh representation of a craft

1297
00:50:02,750 --> 00:50:01,319
or like a virtual reality so we've

1298
00:50:05,750 --> 00:50:02,760
talked about this before that sometimes

1299
00:50:07,790 --> 00:50:05,760
when our technology advances we go aha

1300
00:50:11,270 --> 00:50:07,800
that's what the UFO phenomenon is right

1301
00:50:13,849 --> 00:50:11,280
so when we had VR come on on the on this

1302
00:50:15,410 --> 00:50:13,859
on the scene we were like aha then maybe

1303
00:50:17,510 --> 00:50:15,420
that's what that is they wouldn't go

1304
00:50:19,490 --> 00:50:17,520
they wouldn't need to go to the the the

1305
00:50:21,530 --> 00:50:19,500
effort of actually constructing a craft

1306
00:50:23,750 --> 00:50:21,540
and you know calling some engineers and

1307
00:50:25,490 --> 00:50:23,760
some some alien gray injurers put

1308
00:50:27,530 --> 00:50:25,500
together this craft and sent it across

1309
00:50:30,050 --> 00:50:27,540
that you know the expanse of space they

1310
00:50:31,790 --> 00:50:30,060
could just project a virtual reality

1311
00:50:33,290 --> 00:50:31,800
into the sky and that's all it would be

1312
00:50:35,150 --> 00:50:33,300
necessary like like a hologram basically

1313
00:50:37,130 --> 00:50:35,160
right because again the point being that

1314
00:50:39,290 --> 00:50:37,140
it's about changing our Behavior

1315
00:50:42,950 --> 00:50:39,300
making us believe that's a craft more

1316
00:50:47,329 --> 00:50:45,470
but it goes much further than that

1317
00:50:50,630 --> 00:50:47,339
because even Joseph Burks has talked

1318
00:50:53,150 --> 00:50:50,640
about one time one of the Prime

1319
00:50:54,770 --> 00:50:53,160
contactees that he was working with

1320
00:50:58,010 --> 00:50:54,780
saw something up in the corner of the

1321
00:51:01,309 --> 00:50:58,020
room and it was making him tear up

1322
00:51:03,710 --> 00:51:01,319
and so joburg's had this notion just to

1323
00:51:05,750 --> 00:51:03,720
try this speaking of science Close Your

1324
00:51:07,250 --> 00:51:05,760
Eyes the guy closed his eyes and he

1325
00:51:10,250 --> 00:51:07,260
could still see it even with his eyes

1326
00:51:11,930 --> 00:51:10,260
closed so at first you just assume this

1327
00:51:13,370 --> 00:51:11,940
actually is a real

1328
00:51:15,170 --> 00:51:13,380
phenomena

1329
00:51:16,490 --> 00:51:15,180
in the physical world right because why

1330
00:51:18,290 --> 00:51:16,500
would you not believe that because it's

1331
00:51:19,910 --> 00:51:18,300
it's showing up just as anything else

1332
00:51:22,010 --> 00:51:19,920
would in the physical world

1333
00:51:24,230 --> 00:51:22,020
but then he finds when he closes his

1334
00:51:25,670 --> 00:51:24,240
eyes then still there which suggests

1335
00:51:27,470 --> 00:51:25,680
that maybe it's being beamed right into

1336
00:51:29,750 --> 00:51:27,480
his visual cortex or something right

1337
00:51:31,130 --> 00:51:29,760
rather than having to be a translation

1338
00:51:32,390 --> 00:51:31,140
of something actually in the physical

1339
00:51:34,370 --> 00:51:32,400
environment

1340
00:51:35,990 --> 00:51:34,380
but again that that begs the question is

1341
00:51:37,370 --> 00:51:36,000
it even happening at that level I would

1342
00:51:39,470 --> 00:51:37,380
suggest it's even deeper than that

1343
00:51:41,270 --> 00:51:39,480
because that's still working with our

1344
00:51:42,530 --> 00:51:41,280
understanding of biology and Physiology

1345
00:51:44,569 --> 00:51:42,540
and blah blah

1346
00:51:46,250 --> 00:51:44,579
I think it even goes beyond that I think

1347
00:51:49,430 --> 00:51:46,260
that they are working at the the

1348
00:51:52,069 --> 00:51:49,440
substrate of this deeper structure of

1349
00:51:54,410 --> 00:51:52,079
reality from which we get derivative

1350
00:51:57,170 --> 00:51:54,420
things like quantum theory and space

1351
00:52:01,250 --> 00:51:57,180
time right so and that's partly why we

1352
00:52:03,109 --> 00:52:01,260
can see what look like violations of of

1353
00:52:04,130 --> 00:52:03,119
what we understand physics to allow for

1354
00:52:05,690 --> 00:52:04,140
right

1355
00:52:06,890 --> 00:52:05,700
and even personally I've experienced

1356
00:52:08,990 --> 00:52:06,900
this where

1357
00:52:12,410 --> 00:52:09,000
and when this happened to me back in

1358
00:52:14,630 --> 00:52:12,420
2005 I had I hadn't researched the UFO

1359
00:52:16,190 --> 00:52:14,640
phenomenon enough to know that this is

1360
00:52:18,530 --> 00:52:16,200
something that happens so it just sort

1361
00:52:20,569 --> 00:52:18,540
of becomes this anomaly that hangs out

1362
00:52:23,329 --> 00:52:20,579
in some part of your brain where you go

1363
00:52:25,010 --> 00:52:23,339
this thing feel felt real seemed real

1364
00:52:26,510 --> 00:52:25,020
but then why'd these certain things not

1365
00:52:29,150 --> 00:52:26,520
line up like that in other words I had

1366
00:52:31,670 --> 00:52:29,160
no hook to hang that part of the event

1367
00:52:33,650 --> 00:52:31,680
and what I'm speaking to is how my wife

1368
00:52:36,530 --> 00:52:33,660
of the time and myself both saw this

1369
00:52:38,690 --> 00:52:36,540
humanoid entity that passed through a

1370
00:52:40,549 --> 00:52:38,700
wall and back through again

1371
00:52:42,589 --> 00:52:40,559
but what was strange was we'd both

1372
00:52:44,809 --> 00:52:42,599
beheld it which I'm very thankful for

1373
00:52:46,430 --> 00:52:44,819
because that rounds it in reality for

1374
00:52:48,049 --> 00:52:46,440
you when you can corroborate it with a

1375
00:52:50,150 --> 00:52:48,059
witness who also saw it otherwise you

1376
00:52:51,710 --> 00:52:50,160
might think as I said before that it was

1377
00:52:53,630 --> 00:52:51,720
just a dream or some sort of

1378
00:52:56,030 --> 00:52:53,640
hallucination but if you both see it's

1379
00:52:58,010 --> 00:52:56,040
not likely to be Evolution hallucination

1380
00:52:59,809 --> 00:52:58,020
but what's interesting is while we both

1381
00:53:01,549 --> 00:52:59,819
saw it there were some slightly

1382
00:53:04,970 --> 00:53:01,559
different details of what we saw right

1383
00:53:07,010 --> 00:53:04,980
so I mentioned before there was hair and

1384
00:53:08,270 --> 00:53:07,020
she saw the hair blowing I most

1385
00:53:11,210 --> 00:53:08,280
definitely do not remember the hair

1386
00:53:13,069 --> 00:53:11,220
blowing right so why that anomaly like

1387
00:53:15,349 --> 00:53:13,079
it's as if

1388
00:53:17,809 --> 00:53:15,359
two people can experience something but

1389
00:53:19,730 --> 00:53:17,819
they might still get a custom version of

1390
00:53:21,589 --> 00:53:19,740
that experience and at what level of

1391
00:53:23,990 --> 00:53:21,599
reality is that custom experience being

1392
00:53:26,030 --> 00:53:24,000
provided right these are the questions

1393
00:53:28,370 --> 00:53:26,040
that that come into mind when we think

1394
00:53:30,829 --> 00:53:28,380
about how is Academia going to really

1395
00:53:33,530 --> 00:53:30,839
reckon with these issues

1396
00:53:35,569 --> 00:53:33,540
and let's not forget that our Quantum

1397
00:53:37,430 --> 00:53:35,579
science has already pointed out the same

1398
00:53:39,530 --> 00:53:37,440
kind of phenomena right the devil still

1399
00:53:42,109 --> 00:53:39,540
experiment uh you know you have two

1400
00:53:45,410 --> 00:53:42,119
observers one that's observing well a

1401
00:53:48,170 --> 00:53:45,420
wave and and one that is is not a

1402
00:53:50,630 --> 00:53:48,180
particle and

1403
00:53:54,170 --> 00:53:50,640
and it's all based on observation right

1404
00:53:55,970 --> 00:53:54,180
uh and so the the signs are there like

1405
00:53:58,549 --> 00:53:55,980
and they've been there for quite some

1406
00:54:00,470 --> 00:53:58,559
time and you know I think this really

1407
00:54:04,270 --> 00:54:00,480
begs the question and maybe we can spend

1408
00:54:08,450 --> 00:54:04,280
some time on this is you know what

1409
00:54:14,150 --> 00:54:08,460
what evolves in response to this what

1410
00:54:16,970 --> 00:54:14,160
what is the the the new tool set that uh

1411
00:54:19,549 --> 00:54:16,980
should be used to apply to understanding

1412
00:54:21,470 --> 00:54:19,559
this that takes the the best things from

1413
00:54:24,470 --> 00:54:21,480
from science and the scientific method

1414
00:54:27,349 --> 00:54:24,480
uh but adds to it you know other

1415
00:54:29,390 --> 00:54:27,359
elements that that it ignored and kind

1416
00:54:31,910 --> 00:54:29,400
of folds them back in so that we can

1417
00:54:34,490 --> 00:54:31,920
create something new that does provide

1418
00:54:36,290 --> 00:54:34,500
us with some some valuable understanding

1419
00:54:38,630 --> 00:54:36,300
and conclusion so what kind of thoughts

1420
00:54:40,370 --> 00:54:38,640
do you have along those lines

1421
00:54:41,990 --> 00:54:40,380
well speaking of the double slit

1422
00:54:44,270 --> 00:54:42,000
experiment and other kinds of

1423
00:54:46,490 --> 00:54:44,280
experiments that were conducted

1424
00:54:48,470 --> 00:54:46,500
by a Quantum physicists

1425
00:54:51,829 --> 00:54:48,480
what that seems to be suggesting is that

1426
00:54:54,829 --> 00:54:51,839
like you said that the observation plays

1427
00:54:56,750 --> 00:54:54,839
a key role in what ends up seemingly

1428
00:54:58,970 --> 00:54:56,760
manifesting in what we think of as

1429
00:55:01,549 --> 00:54:58,980
physical reality Which flies in the face

1430
00:55:04,309 --> 00:55:01,559
of everything we had thought about the

1431
00:55:05,930 --> 00:55:04,319
natural world before them we assume that

1432
00:55:07,309 --> 00:55:05,940
you know if a tree falls in the forest

1433
00:55:08,930 --> 00:55:07,319
there's nobody there the tree's still

1434
00:55:11,809 --> 00:55:08,940
Falls still makes a sound blah blah blah

1435
00:55:14,990 --> 00:55:11,819
right but but this all gets called into

1436
00:55:17,750 --> 00:55:15,000
question here which on the one hand

1437
00:55:20,450 --> 00:55:17,760
again speaking of our tendency to look

1438
00:55:22,130 --> 00:55:20,460
at new technology that we come across

1439
00:55:23,990 --> 00:55:22,140
where we develop and go aha that's what

1440
00:55:25,970 --> 00:55:24,000
the UFO phenomenon is so some people

1441
00:55:28,250 --> 00:55:25,980
jump on the simulation hypothesis right

1442
00:55:30,230 --> 00:55:28,260
and they say well you wouldn't render a

1443
00:55:31,670 --> 00:55:30,240
tree falling in the forest where no one

1444
00:55:33,829 --> 00:55:31,680
can see it because that's a waste of

1445
00:55:36,410 --> 00:55:33,839
computing power right you'd only only

1446
00:55:39,950 --> 00:55:36,420
when an avatar is be held beholding it

1447
00:55:43,130 --> 00:55:39,960
on the level they're on on the screen so

1448
00:55:45,829 --> 00:55:43,140
you bother using uh your computing power

1449
00:55:48,230 --> 00:55:45,839
to render something right

1450
00:55:49,490 --> 00:55:48,240
now that's that's neat and tidy but

1451
00:55:51,349 --> 00:55:49,500
again I would just suggest to people

1452
00:55:53,450 --> 00:55:51,359
that that's awfully convenient that that

1453
00:55:56,030 --> 00:55:53,460
would mean the UFO phenomenon just

1454
00:55:58,430 --> 00:55:56,040
happens to be you know some version of

1455
00:56:00,410 --> 00:55:58,440
our latest understanding of

1456
00:56:01,849 --> 00:56:00,420
simulation based on what we've developed

1457
00:56:03,589 --> 00:56:01,859
with video games and things right so

1458
00:56:05,990 --> 00:56:03,599
again we're back to that thing about we

1459
00:56:08,750 --> 00:56:06,000
so quickly try to you know lump it into

1460
00:56:11,030 --> 00:56:08,760
whatever technology is Cutting Edge we

1461
00:56:13,190 --> 00:56:11,040
laugh at our ancestors and how they

1462
00:56:14,750 --> 00:56:13,200
talked about like chariots in the sky

1463
00:56:16,970 --> 00:56:14,760
right I'm like why you call it a chariot

1464
00:56:18,530 --> 00:56:16,980
it's a UFO man but it's because that's

1465
00:56:21,170 --> 00:56:18,540
the only notion of vehicles they had

1466
00:56:22,609 --> 00:56:21,180
right so what else are they going to say

1467
00:56:29,930 --> 00:56:22,619
um

1468
00:56:33,170 --> 00:56:29,940
experiments in terms of

1469
00:56:34,970 --> 00:56:33,180
the conscious Observer plays a role but

1470
00:56:36,470 --> 00:56:34,980
what I would suggest is that when you

1471
00:56:38,150 --> 00:56:36,480
took it you take all of this information

1472
00:56:40,970 --> 00:56:38,160
together and I don't just mean

1473
00:56:44,630 --> 00:56:40,980
observations from the UFO phenomena in

1474
00:56:50,089 --> 00:56:48,410
you know research is being done in uh in

1475
00:56:51,609 --> 00:56:50,099
quantum physics how people like I've

1476
00:56:54,470 --> 00:56:51,619
said many many times

1477
00:56:57,170 --> 00:56:54,480
are finding deeper structures of reality

1478
00:56:58,910 --> 00:56:57,180
Beyond space-time so they basically are

1479
00:57:01,010 --> 00:56:58,920
showing that space time we already know

1480
00:57:03,230 --> 00:57:01,020
space-time cannot be fundamental cannot

1481
00:57:06,770 --> 00:57:03,240
be the foundational model from which

1482
00:57:09,290 --> 00:57:06,780
reality uh you know manifests

1483
00:57:11,270 --> 00:57:09,300
and on top of that we're seeing signs of

1484
00:57:13,190 --> 00:57:11,280
beginning to actually test for some

1485
00:57:15,410 --> 00:57:13,200
structure beyond that which is very

1486
00:57:17,510 --> 00:57:15,420
exciting but what this all gets to

1487
00:57:18,730 --> 00:57:17,520
speaking of this thing about the Leia's

1488
00:57:22,010 --> 00:57:18,740
control system

1489
00:57:23,690 --> 00:57:22,020
hypothesis is that perhaps what we

1490
00:57:26,390 --> 00:57:23,700
perceive as the physical world is

1491
00:57:28,670 --> 00:57:26,400
actually a construct designed to serve

1492
00:57:30,349 --> 00:57:28,680
Consciousness not the other way around

1493
00:57:32,270 --> 00:57:30,359
and I say designed to serve

1494
00:57:34,790 --> 00:57:32,280
Consciousness because like The Truman

1495
00:57:37,849 --> 00:57:34,800
Show You could argue that the entire

1496
00:57:39,829 --> 00:57:37,859
construct is set up as a school

1497
00:57:42,049 --> 00:57:39,839
to allow for the evolution of

1498
00:57:43,970 --> 00:57:42,059
Consciousness so you you set up cause

1499
00:57:46,670 --> 00:57:43,980
and effect you set up

1500
00:57:48,170 --> 00:57:46,680
people walking through a world and

1501
00:57:50,569 --> 00:57:48,180
making decisions and seeing the

1502
00:57:53,030 --> 00:57:50,579
consequences of those choices but rather

1503
00:57:55,549 --> 00:57:53,040
than those being actually real quote

1504
00:57:57,530 --> 00:57:55,559
unquote it's more like again the point

1505
00:58:00,109 --> 00:57:57,540
being that they learn through the

1506
00:58:02,030 --> 00:58:00,119
behavior and the felt pressures that are

1507
00:58:03,470 --> 00:58:02,040
applying to them that we all feel in the

1508
00:58:07,309 --> 00:58:03,480
modern world trying to balance various

1509
00:58:09,109 --> 00:58:07,319
things all of that is designed to serve

1510
00:58:12,049 --> 00:58:09,119
the evolution of Consciousness which

1511
00:58:13,670 --> 00:58:12,059
again speaks to the Lays overarching

1512
00:58:15,890 --> 00:58:13,680
theory that he's proposed at different

1513
00:58:18,530 --> 00:58:15,900
points that perhaps

1514
00:58:21,410 --> 00:58:18,540
they have a very specific goal in mind

1515
00:58:23,390 --> 00:58:21,420
and they do just enough while remaining

1516
00:58:24,890 --> 00:58:23,400
mostly out of the picture like The

1517
00:58:28,190 --> 00:58:24,900
Truman Show right he's never supposed to

1518
00:58:29,329 --> 00:58:28,200
see the people behind the scenes

1519
00:58:32,270 --> 00:58:29,339
but

1520
00:58:35,750 --> 00:58:32,280
it's they do just enough the minimal

1521
00:58:37,370 --> 00:58:35,760
required actually to over time adjust

1522
00:58:40,130 --> 00:58:37,380
the trajectory of our entire

1523
00:58:42,470 --> 00:58:40,140
civilization so that's what I think I go

1524
00:58:45,170 --> 00:58:42,480
that's where I go when I think about how

1525
00:58:46,970 --> 00:58:45,180
Consciousness might relate to these

1526
00:58:48,289 --> 00:58:46,980
others and our notion of physical

1527
00:58:51,770 --> 00:58:48,299
reality

1528
00:58:56,990 --> 00:58:54,589
you know and it I guess for me too it

1529
00:58:58,970 --> 00:58:57,000
we've we've gone into this territory

1530
00:59:02,569 --> 00:58:58,980
several times I think as it comes very

1531
00:59:04,609 --> 00:59:02,579
naturally for us but a lot of our

1532
00:59:06,829 --> 00:59:04,619
you know episodes have a have a kind of

1533
00:59:10,010 --> 00:59:06,839
spiritual quality to them and I think

1534
00:59:12,650 --> 00:59:10,020
that's because for us the the real deep

1535
00:59:13,730 --> 00:59:12,660
meaningful Insight of the phenomena is

1536
00:59:16,730 --> 00:59:13,740
this

1537
00:59:18,109 --> 00:59:16,740
notion of conscious development

1538
00:59:20,210 --> 00:59:18,119
um and

1539
00:59:22,549 --> 00:59:20,220
you know I think we can come out on that

1540
00:59:25,130 --> 00:59:22,559
on that equation being really hard on

1541
00:59:26,390 --> 00:59:25,140
technology right like say like we're

1542
00:59:28,210 --> 00:59:26,400
missing the point you know we're

1543
00:59:31,069 --> 00:59:28,220
shooting too much effort on on

1544
00:59:33,650 --> 00:59:31,079
technology and mastering the world

1545
00:59:34,970 --> 00:59:33,660
around us and kind of our fixation on

1546
00:59:37,870 --> 00:59:34,980
the gizmos

1547
00:59:40,370 --> 00:59:37,880
uh while we're you know totally

1548
00:59:42,589 --> 00:59:40,380
impoverished when it comes to our own

1549
00:59:44,030 --> 00:59:42,599
spiritual uh development conscious

1550
00:59:46,430 --> 00:59:44,040
development

1551
00:59:49,010 --> 00:59:46,440
um but I think that there's probably you

1552
00:59:51,770 --> 00:59:49,020
know for being fair uh there's some

1553
00:59:54,710 --> 00:59:51,780
Redemptive meaningful value to learning

1554
00:59:57,049 --> 00:59:54,720
the lessons of both right so there's

1555
00:59:59,270 --> 00:59:57,059
there is something to be said

1556
01:00:00,890 --> 00:59:59,280
um and this came to me just because what

1557
01:00:02,530 --> 01:00:00,900
you just talked about that there's

1558
01:00:06,710 --> 01:00:02,540
something to be said about

1559
01:00:10,490 --> 01:00:06,720
understanding how to uh tweak variables

1560
01:00:12,890 --> 01:00:10,500
and and modify a system and you know

1561
01:00:15,170 --> 01:00:12,900
create something from what you have at

1562
01:00:17,390 --> 01:00:15,180
your disposal in order to obtain a

1563
01:00:19,430 --> 01:00:17,400
desired outcome and that's what

1564
01:00:21,890 --> 01:00:19,440
technology is doing it's what we're

1565
01:00:23,990 --> 01:00:21,900
becoming quite Adept at doing so there's

1566
01:00:27,890 --> 01:00:24,000
some tremendous value in that now if we

1567
01:00:31,010 --> 01:00:27,900
can just conjoin that with the goals of

1568
01:00:33,650 --> 01:00:31,020
of developing our conscious awareness uh

1569
01:00:36,049 --> 01:00:33,660
the breadth depth scope of our of our

1570
01:00:37,490 --> 01:00:36,059
conscious footprint combine these two

1571
01:00:39,770 --> 01:00:37,500
things together and that's really kind

1572
01:00:42,530 --> 01:00:39,780
of what you see happening you know you

1573
01:00:45,349 --> 01:00:42,540
you do see there's this interplay at

1574
01:00:48,049 --> 01:00:45,359
work between uh you know intelligences

1575
01:00:50,990 --> 01:00:48,059
that that that are uh kind of pushing us

1576
01:00:53,450 --> 01:00:51,000
nudging us in this direction of of this

1577
01:00:55,250 --> 01:00:53,460
wider awareness of of our our fellow

1578
01:00:56,569 --> 01:00:55,260
humans and all the other creatures that

1579
01:00:58,010 --> 01:00:56,579
we spend time with here on this planet

1580
01:00:59,270 --> 01:00:58,020
and how we treat them how we treat

1581
01:01:02,930 --> 01:00:59,280
ourselves

1582
01:01:04,549 --> 01:01:02,940
Etc yet also this manipulation of

1583
01:01:06,230 --> 01:01:04,559
certain intelligences on us from a

1584
01:01:08,930 --> 01:01:06,240
technological level you know you kind of

1585
01:01:10,789 --> 01:01:08,940
see these things happening in both in

1586
01:01:13,789 --> 01:01:10,799
from both directions and I think that's

1587
01:01:17,390 --> 01:01:13,799
because those lessons are very much at

1588
01:01:20,390 --> 01:01:17,400
play on every single layer of reality

1589
01:01:23,210 --> 01:01:20,400
that every single layer of development

1590
01:01:26,270 --> 01:01:23,220
for these beings and and for ourselves

1591
01:01:30,049 --> 01:01:26,280
and so we carry these learnings with us

1592
01:01:32,030 --> 01:01:30,059
as we go and uh and we learn as we go to

1593
01:01:34,370 --> 01:01:32,040
like this is the right time to be

1594
01:01:36,829 --> 01:01:34,380
technological and apply a technological

1595
01:01:38,990 --> 01:01:36,839
solution and and this is the wrong time

1596
01:01:41,329 --> 01:01:39,000
for that like yes we could apply a

1597
01:01:43,490 --> 01:01:41,339
technological solution no I could make

1598
01:01:45,470 --> 01:01:43,500
my kids life a whole lot easier by not

1599
01:01:47,210 --> 01:01:45,480
having them do you know whatever chore

1600
01:01:49,549 --> 01:01:47,220
it is around the house that anything to

1601
01:01:51,650 --> 01:01:49,559
do by just giving them a power tool or

1602
01:01:54,829 --> 01:01:51,660
something but it's important that they

1603
01:01:56,210 --> 01:01:54,839
learn the value of that hard work you

1604
01:01:58,069 --> 01:01:56,220
know because it's developing who they

1605
01:02:01,250 --> 01:01:58,079
are as a person and their character Etc

1606
01:02:02,630 --> 01:02:01,260
but you got to balance those things

1607
01:02:04,490 --> 01:02:02,640
um so I don't know that's how I think

1608
01:02:07,069 --> 01:02:04,500
about these issues and I think about how

1609
01:02:09,370 --> 01:02:07,079
I think about how I would combine sort

1610
01:02:13,490 --> 01:02:09,380
of the the kind of spiritual

1611
01:02:16,130 --> 01:02:13,500
uh value and and wisdom of humanity that

1612
01:02:19,309 --> 01:02:16,140
we've inherited from our four four

1613
01:02:22,190 --> 01:02:19,319
parents over many many Millennia and our

1614
01:02:24,230 --> 01:02:22,200
technological uh aptitude like there's

1615
01:02:25,910 --> 01:02:24,240
some beauty in having both of these

1616
01:02:27,170 --> 01:02:25,920
things and we live in a time where maybe

1617
01:02:29,750 --> 01:02:27,180
perhaps

1618
01:02:32,150 --> 01:02:29,760
we if we're successful can we can really

1619
01:02:33,770 --> 01:02:32,160
bring these two things together

1620
01:02:35,750 --> 01:02:33,780
yeah that would be that would be the

1621
01:02:38,150 --> 01:02:35,760
ideal and I would say a couple things

1622
01:02:42,530 --> 01:02:40,730
that tricky place we're in

1623
01:02:44,990 --> 01:02:42,540
but before we get there I just wanted to

1624
01:02:48,410 --> 01:02:45,000
draw people's attention to the fact that

1625
01:02:49,670 --> 01:02:48,420
if it is the case going with this notion

1626
01:02:52,309 --> 01:02:49,680
here that

1627
01:02:54,349 --> 01:02:52,319
but we perceive as physical reality

1628
01:02:56,750 --> 01:02:54,359
and all that entails being a biological

1629
01:02:58,490 --> 01:02:56,760
being with no pressures on you and you

1630
01:02:59,270 --> 01:02:58,500
live for so many decades and then you

1631
01:03:01,190 --> 01:02:59,280
know

1632
01:03:03,349 --> 01:03:01,200
maybe you redo it again and you you

1633
01:03:05,089 --> 01:03:03,359
again go through reincarnation and you

1634
01:03:06,470 --> 01:03:05,099
still have some lessons to learn so you

1635
01:03:07,609 --> 01:03:06,480
go through the same pressures but the

1636
01:03:09,829 --> 01:03:07,619
whole point of it just like when you go

1637
01:03:11,030 --> 01:03:09,839
to the gym and you face resistance when

1638
01:03:14,270 --> 01:03:11,040
you're lifting weight it's to actually

1639
01:03:16,309 --> 01:03:14,280
grow your muscles and in a in a vacuum

1640
01:03:18,650 --> 01:03:16,319
you cannot grow muscles right and so if

1641
01:03:22,190 --> 01:03:18,660
you think about being in between lives

1642
01:03:25,190 --> 01:03:22,200
or being not incarnated right in a a

1643
01:03:27,890 --> 01:03:25,200
state in between that Incarnation then

1644
01:03:30,109 --> 01:03:27,900
you can't really grow your spiritual

1645
01:03:31,730 --> 01:03:30,119
progress because you have nothing

1646
01:03:33,349 --> 01:03:31,740
impression against you that you have to

1647
01:03:35,150 --> 01:03:33,359
respond to that you have to basically

1648
01:03:37,190 --> 01:03:35,160
build strength around

1649
01:03:39,230 --> 01:03:37,200
so if we go with that notion then what's

1650
01:03:41,990 --> 01:03:39,240
very interesting is that we see how in

1651
01:03:43,430 --> 01:03:42,000
many ways it's worked when you look back

1652
01:03:45,230 --> 01:03:43,440
at history

1653
01:03:47,510 --> 01:03:45,240
if it's true that there's been some sort

1654
01:03:49,849 --> 01:03:47,520
of control system in terms of an

1655
01:03:51,589 --> 01:03:49,859
overarching collection perhaps of

1656
01:03:54,470 --> 01:03:51,599
intelligences that are trying to tweak

1657
01:03:56,930 --> 01:03:54,480
things here and there to set the table

1658
01:03:58,970 --> 01:03:56,940
for us to grow and learn around the

1659
01:04:01,910 --> 01:03:58,980
things that matter most you could say

1660
01:04:04,609 --> 01:04:01,920
that we began as a species who

1661
01:04:06,530 --> 01:04:04,619
very often Ward against the tribe that

1662
01:04:08,329 --> 01:04:06,540
was just over the hill right and we saw

1663
01:04:11,390 --> 01:04:08,339
them as other and they we saw them as

1664
01:04:12,829 --> 01:04:11,400
the enemy uh there's even passages in

1665
01:04:14,870 --> 01:04:12,839
the Bible that you can translate from

1666
01:04:17,450 --> 01:04:14,880
the Hebrew that actually call those

1667
01:04:18,470 --> 01:04:17,460
other tribes aliens very interestingly

1668
01:04:20,569 --> 01:04:18,480
right

1669
01:04:22,609 --> 01:04:20,579
I had a friend in high school had a had

1670
01:04:23,630 --> 01:04:22,619
a band called alien and a psycho and it

1671
01:04:27,349 --> 01:04:23,640
was all about this particular

1672
01:04:28,910 --> 01:04:27,359
translation from the Old Testament but

1673
01:04:32,030 --> 01:04:28,920
what I'm getting out there is that we

1674
01:04:33,770 --> 01:04:32,040
went from at first just seeing even the

1675
01:04:36,049 --> 01:04:33,780
same human group over the hill as

1676
01:04:38,329 --> 01:04:36,059
something so different than that and so

1677
01:04:40,250 --> 01:04:38,339
opposed to us and we had to defend

1678
01:04:42,890 --> 01:04:40,260
ourselves against them even if it meant

1679
01:04:44,930 --> 01:04:42,900
like driving them to Extinction we went

1680
01:04:46,549 --> 01:04:44,940
from that to suddenly realizing it's not

1681
01:04:49,250 --> 01:04:46,559
just about my family it's not just about

1682
01:04:51,650 --> 01:04:49,260
my tribe it's not just about my nation

1683
01:04:54,829 --> 01:04:51,660
state or my religious group it's really

1684
01:04:57,770 --> 01:04:54,839
about all of humanity and then we have

1685
01:05:00,890 --> 01:04:57,780
this again a further expansion of this

1686
01:05:03,890 --> 01:05:00,900
sphere of concern and care where we go

1687
01:05:06,230 --> 01:05:03,900
actually animals you know seem to be

1688
01:05:08,450 --> 01:05:06,240
living entities with some sort of

1689
01:05:10,430 --> 01:05:08,460
spiritual capacity

1690
01:05:11,390 --> 01:05:10,440
and we should care for them too we

1691
01:05:13,970 --> 01:05:11,400
shouldn't just treat them like

1692
01:05:16,690 --> 01:05:13,980
Commodities and many many people who

1693
01:05:19,130 --> 01:05:16,700
think about the UFO phenomenon

1694
01:05:20,630 --> 01:05:19,140
also think about the others this way I

1695
01:05:22,849 --> 01:05:20,640
remember hearing George Knapp talking

1696
01:05:24,410 --> 01:05:22,859
about when he heard about this notion of

1697
01:05:26,630 --> 01:05:24,420
this being that had been captured after

1698
01:05:28,670 --> 01:05:26,640
Roswell and was kind of kept in

1699
01:05:30,829 --> 01:05:28,680
confinement George thought of that as

1700
01:05:33,410 --> 01:05:30,839
like he felt sorry for the entity right

1701
01:05:35,210 --> 01:05:33,420
because this is what we naturally do and

1702
01:05:37,549 --> 01:05:35,220
and you know George is also like be a

1703
01:05:39,890 --> 01:05:37,559
vegetarian and really cares what animal

1704
01:05:41,930 --> 01:05:39,900
writes because the point being that this

1705
01:05:43,910 --> 01:05:41,940
has been the trajectory that if this is

1706
01:05:46,370 --> 01:05:43,920
a school if it's set up so that we learn

1707
01:05:48,950 --> 01:05:46,380
about these important principles but who

1708
01:05:50,990 --> 01:05:48,960
we are and the interconnectedness of

1709
01:05:52,910 --> 01:05:51,000
everything and everyone then you could

1710
01:05:54,230 --> 01:05:52,920
say the experiment's working right we

1711
01:05:56,329 --> 01:05:54,240
are actually learning these lessons

1712
01:05:58,490 --> 01:05:56,339
where in many ways I know people

1713
01:06:01,789 --> 01:05:58,500
sometimes when they watch the news just

1714
01:06:05,210 --> 01:06:01,799
get bombarded by negativity and and

1715
01:06:07,849 --> 01:06:05,220
derision and tension constantly but the

1716
01:06:09,710 --> 01:06:07,859
truth is in many ways it's a it's a more

1717
01:06:12,530 --> 01:06:09,720
peaceful world than it used to be on and

1718
01:06:14,809 --> 01:06:12,540
by some measures anyway and most people

1719
01:06:18,710 --> 01:06:14,819
consider

1720
01:06:20,210 --> 01:06:18,720
a much broader sphere in terms of who we

1721
01:06:22,849 --> 01:06:20,220
should be protecting and who we should

1722
01:06:25,730 --> 01:06:22,859
be considering when we make decisions

1723
01:06:28,849 --> 01:06:25,740
so that's working uh to plan you could

1724
01:06:31,510 --> 01:06:28,859
argue the challenge though is that we

1725
01:06:33,410 --> 01:06:31,520
more recently again because of this

1726
01:06:35,029 --> 01:06:33,420
Singularity we seem to be heading

1727
01:06:36,170 --> 01:06:35,039
towards technologically that you and I

1728
01:06:37,010 --> 01:06:36,180
talked about before we went on the Air

1729
01:06:40,549 --> 01:06:37,020
Tonight

1730
01:06:42,829 --> 01:06:40,559
is ramping up so quickly

1731
01:06:47,150 --> 01:06:42,839
and this sheer computational power we're

1732
01:06:49,130 --> 01:06:47,160
now throwing at it is so robust that we

1733
01:06:51,710 --> 01:06:49,140
can't even anymore keep up with it or

1734
01:06:54,289 --> 01:06:51,720
even understand how it's working

1735
01:06:55,789 --> 01:06:54,299
we now are at a place where our

1736
01:06:57,650 --> 01:06:55,799
technological advancement is far

1737
01:07:00,829 --> 01:06:57,660
outpacing our Consciousness advancement

1738
01:07:02,450 --> 01:07:00,839
and in many ways because we've just said

1739
01:07:04,250 --> 01:07:02,460
well hey this seems to be working you

1740
01:07:05,870 --> 01:07:04,260
know we're replying technology and it

1741
01:07:08,329 --> 01:07:05,880
seems to be changing our our

1742
01:07:11,029 --> 01:07:08,339
civilization we kind of are not even

1743
01:07:13,370 --> 01:07:11,039
giving a lot of effort towards

1744
01:07:15,349 --> 01:07:13,380
spiritual growth or these things that

1745
01:07:17,950 --> 01:07:15,359
would matter to like a shamanic culture

1746
01:07:20,690 --> 01:07:17,960
in the past and things like that so

1747
01:07:22,250 --> 01:07:20,700
we're really in a precarious situation

1748
01:07:25,970 --> 01:07:22,260
even when I've heard some people argue

1749
01:07:27,410 --> 01:07:25,980
that we maybe we're at an interesting

1750
01:07:30,170 --> 01:07:27,420
Turning Point

1751
01:07:33,410 --> 01:07:30,180
um a bifurcation moment where some human

1752
01:07:35,210 --> 01:07:33,420
beings will decide am I going to go in

1753
01:07:37,309 --> 01:07:35,220
the cyborg route or am I going to stay

1754
01:07:39,170 --> 01:07:37,319
quote-unquote human right like of course

1755
01:07:41,329 --> 01:07:39,180
we already have many ways that we

1756
01:07:42,710 --> 01:07:41,339
already are changed because of

1757
01:07:44,569 --> 01:07:42,720
Technology but at some point we're going

1758
01:07:46,670 --> 01:07:44,579
to have to make decisions around how

1759
01:07:48,589 --> 01:07:46,680
much do we let technology change our

1760
01:07:52,069 --> 01:07:48,599
biology and

1761
01:07:53,450 --> 01:07:52,079
how might that even impact our energetic

1762
01:07:55,190 --> 01:07:53,460
spiritual core

1763
01:07:56,329 --> 01:07:55,200
by doing that because what we're seeing

1764
01:07:59,750 --> 01:07:56,339
here is we don't really understand

1765
01:08:02,829 --> 01:07:59,760
reality yet so who knows what kind of

1766
01:08:05,569 --> 01:08:02,839
deeper energetic structures we might be

1767
01:08:08,809 --> 01:08:05,579
impacting perhaps in in less than

1768
01:08:10,549 --> 01:08:08,819
advantageous Ways by just putting in a

1769
01:08:12,890 --> 01:08:10,559
brain chip so we can you know Run a

1770
01:08:14,029 --> 01:08:12,900
search engine check in our brain when we

1771
01:08:15,289 --> 01:08:14,039
are thinking about a restaurant rather

1772
01:08:18,169 --> 01:08:15,299
than having to worry about taking out a

1773
01:08:20,269 --> 01:08:18,179
phone right these are are really

1774
01:08:22,550 --> 01:08:20,279
daunting questions that I think our

1775
01:08:24,910 --> 01:08:22,560
civilizations facing

1776
01:08:28,010 --> 01:08:24,920
yeah I'm really glad that you went there

1777
01:08:29,809 --> 01:08:28,020
and and the analogy about you know going

1778
01:08:32,450 --> 01:08:29,819
to the gym Etc is really a good one

1779
01:08:34,729 --> 01:08:32,460
because uh you could Envision a world

1780
01:08:36,769 --> 01:08:34,739
where the you have a personal AI we're

1781
01:08:39,950 --> 01:08:36,779
not far from this now

1782
01:08:42,410 --> 01:08:39,960
and essentially is telling you every how

1783
01:08:45,410 --> 01:08:42,420
to live every moment of your day for

1784
01:08:47,269 --> 01:08:45,420
some sort of optimized function and that

1785
01:08:49,490 --> 01:08:47,279
optimized function is something that you

1786
01:08:52,430 --> 01:08:49,500
determine or Society determines but

1787
01:08:53,630 --> 01:08:52,440
frankly it's it's there's a you're both

1788
01:08:55,490 --> 01:08:53,640
determining you're kind of co-creating

1789
01:08:58,010 --> 01:08:55,500
whatever that optimization happens to be

1790
01:09:01,370 --> 01:08:58,020
or it could be optimized based on the

1791
01:09:03,349 --> 01:09:01,380
goals of the AI for for everyone uh but

1792
01:09:05,450 --> 01:09:03,359
essentially you know at that point

1793
01:09:07,789 --> 01:09:05,460
you're you're just kind of uh executing

1794
01:09:10,430 --> 01:09:07,799
its commands and you're not you've not

1795
01:09:14,630 --> 01:09:10,440
developed on your own the discipline

1796
01:09:16,189 --> 01:09:14,640
that you need uh to you know to do these

1797
01:09:18,769 --> 01:09:16,199
things without its assistance so it's

1798
01:09:20,090 --> 01:09:18,779
it's this uh digital crutch in other

1799
01:09:22,550 --> 01:09:20,100
words

1800
01:09:24,709 --> 01:09:22,560
um that in many ways kinds of It kind of

1801
01:09:27,410 --> 01:09:24,719
stunts you even though it on the surface

1802
01:09:30,530 --> 01:09:27,420
it looks as if it's trying to help you

1803
01:09:32,209 --> 01:09:30,540
uh and so and we we kind of even see

1804
01:09:34,370 --> 01:09:32,219
this with some of the accounts of the

1805
01:09:38,150 --> 01:09:34,380
others right where

1806
01:09:40,789 --> 01:09:38,160
um perhaps there's a a kind of a a grief

1807
01:09:43,130 --> 01:09:40,799
uh on their part that they have gone

1808
01:09:44,749 --> 01:09:43,140
down the same path and they they lack

1809
01:09:47,390 --> 01:09:44,759
something that we have they lack a

1810
01:09:50,930 --> 01:09:47,400
capacity that we have and maybe it's a

1811
01:09:52,910 --> 01:09:50,940
cautionary tale you know that uh that

1812
01:09:56,689 --> 01:09:52,920
they wish they could turn back the clock

1813
01:09:58,550 --> 01:09:56,699
to so to speak and and do differently

1814
01:10:01,250 --> 01:09:58,560
um but I think all of that is at play

1815
01:10:03,830 --> 01:10:01,260
all of that is a play with you know in

1816
01:10:05,570 --> 01:10:03,840
our understanding of this with with what

1817
01:10:08,450 --> 01:10:05,580
what's happening in reality and that's

1818
01:10:10,669 --> 01:10:08,460
that you know you you get many attempts

1819
01:10:13,610 --> 01:10:10,679
at figuring this out there are no

1820
01:10:15,890 --> 01:10:13,620
shortcuts uh so if if you decide to go

1821
01:10:18,110 --> 01:10:15,900
this technological path and it ends with

1822
01:10:20,330 --> 01:10:18,120
the annihilation of your civilization or

1823
01:10:22,669 --> 01:10:20,340
it ends with you know the robotic

1824
01:10:26,030 --> 01:10:22,679
automation of every human being uh into

1825
01:10:28,189 --> 01:10:26,040
doing a certain thing uh there comes a

1826
01:10:30,530 --> 01:10:28,199
point in time where where it's where

1827
01:10:33,189 --> 01:10:30,540
there's a self-realization that that is

1828
01:10:35,689 --> 01:10:33,199
either beneficial or it's not that

1829
01:10:37,910 --> 01:10:35,699
beneficial for the system the the larger

1830
01:10:39,950 --> 01:10:37,920
Consciousness as a whole

1831
01:10:41,450 --> 01:10:39,960
um and so you know when we when we think

1832
01:10:43,790 --> 01:10:41,460
about

1833
01:10:45,410 --> 01:10:43,800
you know what tools to use how to

1834
01:10:48,290 --> 01:10:45,420
approach this problem how to solve

1835
01:10:50,149 --> 01:10:48,300
whatever this thing is uh I think we do

1836
01:10:53,090 --> 01:10:50,159
need to step back and and look at it

1837
01:10:56,209 --> 01:10:53,100
from that larger developmental lens

1838
01:10:59,149 --> 01:10:56,219
right so it's not just a matter of uh

1839
01:11:02,030 --> 01:10:59,159
how can I get some data so that I can

1840
01:11:04,430 --> 01:11:02,040
then you know Master this new you know

1841
01:11:07,189 --> 01:11:04,440
aspect of reality but it's how can I

1842
01:11:09,649 --> 01:11:07,199
understand this and how does it feed

1843
01:11:12,350 --> 01:11:09,659
into and help with the larger

1844
01:11:15,110 --> 01:11:12,360
development of both myself as an

1845
01:11:17,030 --> 01:11:15,120
individual but but but the world right

1846
01:11:19,790 --> 01:11:17,040
if we're not thinking in that scope

1847
01:11:22,010 --> 01:11:19,800
we're not really there yet right because

1848
01:11:24,350 --> 01:11:22,020
the the as we've talked about many times

1849
01:11:27,169 --> 01:11:24,360
like our as our Consciousness develops

1850
01:11:29,630 --> 01:11:27,179
our scope broadens and so if our scope

1851
01:11:31,370 --> 01:11:29,640
is entirely you know narrow to just oh

1852
01:11:32,450 --> 01:11:31,380
this this scientific discovery or

1853
01:11:34,850 --> 01:11:32,460
whatever and it doesn't take into

1854
01:11:36,649 --> 01:11:34,860
consideration how it impacts your

1855
01:11:38,149 --> 01:11:36,659
neighbor how it impacts the the other

1856
01:11:40,189 --> 01:11:38,159
living creatures on the planet our

1857
01:11:41,810 --> 01:11:40,199
ecosystem then then you're kind of

1858
01:11:44,149 --> 01:11:41,820
missing the point

1859
01:11:46,490 --> 01:11:44,159
right and that brings to mind our

1860
01:11:48,530 --> 01:11:46,500
overarching question here around

1861
01:11:51,310 --> 01:11:48,540
how much can science play a role here

1862
01:11:53,870 --> 01:11:51,320
how much can Academia Essence currently

1863
01:11:55,970 --> 01:11:53,880
structured come in and solve some of

1864
01:11:59,209 --> 01:11:55,980
this and answer some questions

1865
01:12:02,390 --> 01:11:59,219
now again one of the assumptions in

1866
01:12:05,149 --> 01:12:02,400
science that was again in opposition to

1867
01:12:07,669 --> 01:12:05,159
what came before right with the

1868
01:12:11,630 --> 01:12:07,679
Christendom was that there really is

1869
01:12:15,770 --> 01:12:11,640
just random factors and it's purposeless

1870
01:12:20,270 --> 01:12:17,930
teleos right there is no sense of this

1871
01:12:22,669 --> 01:12:20,280
heading anywhere it's completely random

1872
01:12:24,350 --> 01:12:22,679
it's purposeless again this is part of

1873
01:12:26,390 --> 01:12:24,360
the the irony of the modern ages we're

1874
01:12:28,669 --> 01:12:26,400
making it more and more comfortable

1875
01:12:31,070 --> 01:12:28,679
to have a purposeless existence right

1876
01:12:33,950 --> 01:12:31,080
and we even talk about extending our

1877
01:12:35,270 --> 01:12:33,960
lifetimes by while sort of like behind

1878
01:12:37,910 --> 01:12:35,280
the scenes admitting that we don't think

1879
01:12:39,830 --> 01:12:37,920
life is about anything right so you know

1880
01:12:41,570 --> 01:12:39,840
what are we doing that for ultimately

1881
01:12:44,030 --> 01:12:41,580
right these these are questions and so

1882
01:12:46,250 --> 01:12:44,040
one of the

1883
01:12:48,950 --> 01:12:46,260
I think Notions that the UFO phenomena

1884
01:12:51,470 --> 01:12:48,960
is confronting us with and not just UFO

1885
01:12:52,970 --> 01:12:51,480
phenomena but General paranormality Psy

1886
01:12:57,290 --> 01:12:52,980
phenomena

1887
01:12:58,910 --> 01:12:57,300
is that perhaps actually what we see in

1888
01:13:01,310 --> 01:12:58,920
these tweaks where we see actually a

1889
01:13:03,830 --> 01:13:01,320
variable seems to have been changed that

1890
01:13:06,050 --> 01:13:03,840
we didn't actually change ourselves it's

1891
01:13:09,050 --> 01:13:06,060
not one of these variables I talked

1892
01:13:10,790 --> 01:13:09,060
about where we're actually consciously

1893
01:13:12,110 --> 01:13:10,800
isolating it and saying we're going to

1894
01:13:14,270 --> 01:13:12,120
tweak this and see how it impacts

1895
01:13:17,030 --> 01:13:14,280
everything else it seems like something

1896
01:13:18,649 --> 01:13:17,040
else someone else is tweaking the

1897
01:13:20,270 --> 01:13:18,659
experiment and the variables before we

1898
01:13:23,209 --> 01:13:20,280
even get a chance to run the experiment

1899
01:13:26,270 --> 01:13:23,219
which again I think should make us think

1900
01:13:27,950 --> 01:13:26,280
about is it possible that

1901
01:13:30,229 --> 01:13:27,960
it's because

1902
01:13:32,330 --> 01:13:30,239
it's trying to lead us in a certain

1903
01:13:34,490 --> 01:13:32,340
direction in other words this kind of

1904
01:13:37,790 --> 01:13:34,500
data should make us question this sense

1905
01:13:41,270 --> 01:13:37,800
that life is purposeless and that the

1906
01:13:44,630 --> 01:13:41,280
cosmos is just the random firing of some

1907
01:13:46,790 --> 01:13:44,640
processes that have no direction and

1908
01:13:48,530 --> 01:13:46,800
there's no intention behind the cosmos

1909
01:13:50,810 --> 01:13:48,540
at all these are the kinds of questions

1910
01:13:52,850 --> 01:13:50,820
I think we should be asking

1911
01:13:55,010 --> 01:13:52,860
I also wanted to bring into mind uh

1912
01:13:57,290 --> 01:13:55,020
bring into the conversation speaking of

1913
01:13:58,970 --> 01:13:57,300
PSI phenomenon one thing that's really

1914
01:14:01,130 --> 01:13:58,980
interesting is we do see some of that

1915
01:14:04,189 --> 01:14:01,140
sometimes where we see almost like a

1916
01:14:07,130 --> 01:14:04,199
pushback from the cosmos when we even

1917
01:14:08,689 --> 01:14:07,140
employed certain psychic capacities so

1918
01:14:10,370 --> 01:14:08,699
to give you an example

1919
01:14:13,010 --> 01:14:10,380
one of the things been that's been tried

1920
01:14:17,570 --> 01:14:13,020
and I think even helped put off and and

1921
01:14:20,030 --> 01:14:17,580
some people at SRI uh worked on some

1922
01:14:21,649 --> 01:14:20,040
pre-cognition experiments and they

1923
01:14:23,689 --> 01:14:21,659
actually Russell tart was another one I

1924
01:14:25,250 --> 01:14:23,699
think and they would actually invest in

1925
01:14:27,649 --> 01:14:25,260
the stock market based on these

1926
01:14:29,209 --> 01:14:27,659
precognitive sensors that people would

1927
01:14:31,610 --> 01:14:29,219
get right so they would identify people

1928
01:14:33,770 --> 01:14:31,620
who had really astounding capacity

1929
01:14:36,830 --> 01:14:33,780
around SCI phenomena and specifically

1930
01:14:38,209 --> 01:14:36,840
pre-cognition knowing knowing the future

1931
01:14:39,890 --> 01:14:38,219
and they would basically make

1932
01:14:42,470 --> 01:14:39,900
predictions about what stock market was

1933
01:14:44,870 --> 01:14:42,480
going to do tomorrow or next week and

1934
01:14:49,070 --> 01:14:44,880
what's interesting is initially they did

1935
01:14:52,970 --> 01:14:51,169
it seemed to be working it seemed to me

1936
01:14:55,189 --> 01:14:52,980
that they could you know again as we

1937
01:14:57,290 --> 01:14:55,199
said before one of the revelations of

1938
01:14:59,750 --> 01:14:57,300
all this phenomena is that seemingly

1939
01:15:02,470 --> 01:14:59,760
there are no secrets in space and time

1940
01:15:04,490 --> 01:15:02,480
whatsoever right so that therefore

1941
01:15:06,169 --> 01:15:04,500
suggests that you could know what's

1942
01:15:08,149 --> 01:15:06,179
happening on the stock market next week

1943
01:15:10,550 --> 01:15:08,159
right and then get rich because of it

1944
01:15:13,149 --> 01:15:10,560
right what's interesting is that while

1945
01:15:15,410 --> 01:15:13,159
initially they did do really really well

1946
01:15:18,890 --> 01:15:15,420
eventually began to fall off a little

1947
01:15:20,149 --> 01:15:18,900
bit and that you know raises all sorts

1948
01:15:22,490 --> 01:15:20,159
of questions

1949
01:15:24,709 --> 01:15:22,500
and why would that be happening why

1950
01:15:26,570 --> 01:15:24,719
would you see a really robust response

1951
01:15:29,090 --> 01:15:26,580
at first that's demonstrable and then

1952
01:15:30,649 --> 01:15:29,100
see a falloff there's a couple things

1953
01:15:32,510 --> 01:15:30,659
that came to mind are that they've been

1954
01:15:34,070 --> 01:15:32,520
suggested because of that speaking of

1955
01:15:36,590 --> 01:15:34,080
trying to scientifically understand that

1956
01:15:38,030 --> 01:15:36,600
one is that when you have strong

1957
01:15:40,310 --> 01:15:38,040
emotional

1958
01:15:42,530 --> 01:15:40,320
overlay and this comes to that question

1959
01:15:44,330 --> 01:15:42,540
you raised about some of these others

1960
01:15:46,310 --> 01:15:44,340
and how they kind of deliberately bred

1961
01:15:48,169 --> 01:15:46,320
themselves away from emotion

1962
01:15:50,030 --> 01:15:48,179
this would be again a positive reason

1963
01:15:51,530 --> 01:15:50,040
why you might want to do that is that

1964
01:15:53,090 --> 01:15:51,540
when our emotion gets involved like hey

1965
01:15:54,890 --> 01:15:53,100
I want to get rich man and I don't want

1966
01:15:56,810 --> 01:15:54,900
to lose money right so you've got now

1967
01:15:59,930 --> 01:15:56,820
this emotional overlay

1968
01:16:02,390 --> 01:15:59,940
on top of the the clean mirror of trying

1969
01:16:04,070 --> 01:16:02,400
to see into the future and when that's

1970
01:16:05,570 --> 01:16:04,080
the case what we've seen in these

1971
01:16:06,410 --> 01:16:05,580
experiments is that they don't go as

1972
01:16:09,790 --> 01:16:06,420
well

1973
01:16:12,050 --> 01:16:09,800
that if you are trying to even

1974
01:16:13,910 --> 01:16:12,060
psychically tune into someone that

1975
01:16:15,649 --> 01:16:13,920
you're close to there might be more

1976
01:16:17,630 --> 01:16:15,659
interference because of your relational

1977
01:16:18,950 --> 01:16:17,640
overlay than if you were looking to

1978
01:16:21,770 --> 01:16:18,960
someone that was a complete stranger

1979
01:16:23,570 --> 01:16:21,780
which kind of goes against our intuition

1980
01:16:24,830 --> 01:16:23,580
but that seems to be what what is borne

1981
01:16:27,890 --> 01:16:24,840
out in the data

1982
01:16:30,649 --> 01:16:27,900
so so this is interesting and you think

1983
01:16:32,450 --> 01:16:30,659
about even in terms of science again uh

1984
01:16:34,970 --> 01:16:32,460
there's this uh this phenomena called

1985
01:16:37,370 --> 01:16:34,980
regression to the mean so this is the

1986
01:16:38,689 --> 01:16:37,380
notion that even if you see astounding

1987
01:16:41,410 --> 01:16:38,699
results

1988
01:16:44,149 --> 01:16:41,420
it should fall back towards the average

1989
01:16:45,530 --> 01:16:44,159
that's basically how things remain

1990
01:16:48,050 --> 01:16:45,540
predictable right we have this kind of

1991
01:16:50,229 --> 01:16:48,060
bell curve kind of thing so as a as an

1992
01:16:53,030 --> 01:16:50,239
example here Michael Jordan was this

1993
01:16:54,169 --> 01:16:53,040
insanely talented basketball player

1994
01:16:56,990 --> 01:16:54,179
right

1995
01:16:59,209 --> 01:16:57,000
and he had sons who ended up being

1996
01:17:00,770 --> 01:16:59,219
basketball players but not surprisingly

1997
01:17:02,750 --> 01:17:00,780
they weren't nearly as good as their dad

1998
01:17:04,850 --> 01:17:02,760
was because he was so above the mean

1999
01:17:06,229 --> 01:17:04,860
that even though they were pretty good

2000
01:17:07,790 --> 01:17:06,239
and I think one of them managed to get

2001
01:17:10,550 --> 01:17:07,800
into the NBA but didn't last that long

2002
01:17:12,290 --> 01:17:10,560
because it's it's that's what happens

2003
01:17:14,390 --> 01:17:12,300
you kind of have this regression to the

2004
01:17:16,550 --> 01:17:14,400
mean this is part of what we notice with

2005
01:17:18,169 --> 01:17:16,560
scientific studies

2006
01:17:19,970 --> 01:17:18,179
so that could also be what's going on

2007
01:17:21,729 --> 01:17:19,980
here right that these these PSI

2008
01:17:24,770 --> 01:17:21,739
experiments even to the stock market

2009
01:17:26,930 --> 01:17:24,780
it's almost like

2010
01:17:28,490 --> 01:17:26,940
you could even argue again because one

2011
01:17:30,290 --> 01:17:28,500
of the assumptions in science is that

2012
01:17:31,970 --> 01:17:30,300
there is nothing pushing back right

2013
01:17:34,610 --> 01:17:31,980
there is nothing trying to tweak the

2014
01:17:36,290 --> 01:17:34,620
dials besides us right but what we might

2015
01:17:37,430 --> 01:17:36,300
see in these kinds of situations is

2016
01:17:40,189 --> 01:17:37,440
actually

2017
01:17:43,310 --> 01:17:40,199
even the conscious Cosmos itself saying

2018
01:17:45,830 --> 01:17:43,320
oh I noticed now that you're trying to

2019
01:17:47,750 --> 01:17:45,840
impact reality in this way

2020
01:17:50,209 --> 01:17:47,760
there's going to be a response and and

2021
01:17:51,950 --> 01:17:50,219
this could even be some new scientific

2022
01:17:53,870 --> 01:17:51,960
fact that we can discover actually that

2023
01:17:55,250 --> 01:17:53,880
we find that there's actually a kind of

2024
01:17:57,950 --> 01:17:55,260
regression to the mean here but it's

2025
01:17:59,810 --> 01:17:57,960
actually not just a random process it's

2026
01:18:01,910 --> 01:17:59,820
actually some sort of

2027
01:18:03,590 --> 01:18:01,920
function built into the nature of what

2028
01:18:06,050 --> 01:18:03,600
we consider physical reality which again

2029
01:18:08,270 --> 01:18:06,060
I would still say is still derivative of

2030
01:18:10,070 --> 01:18:08,280
some deeper structure in Consciousness

2031
01:18:11,630 --> 01:18:10,080
but these are the kind of things I think

2032
01:18:13,669 --> 01:18:11,640
about when I think about the revelations

2033
01:18:15,229 --> 01:18:13,679
of PSI phenomena which again what's

2034
01:18:17,330 --> 01:18:15,239
interesting there is we actually have

2035
01:18:19,729 --> 01:18:17,340
been able to test it and some

2036
01:18:21,770 --> 01:18:19,739
interesting and intriguing Avenues I

2037
01:18:23,450 --> 01:18:21,780
think we should pursue further uh have

2038
01:18:24,770 --> 01:18:23,460
come about as a result

2039
01:18:29,570 --> 01:18:24,780
thank you

2040
01:18:31,090 --> 01:18:29,580
yeah that a dynamic response uh to our

2041
01:18:34,490 --> 01:18:31,100
our actions

2042
01:18:38,390 --> 01:18:34,500
for a purpose that we may be

2043
01:18:41,209 --> 01:18:38,400
blind to or or becoming slowly aware of

2044
01:18:44,270 --> 01:18:41,219
right that's uh what seems to be at work

2045
01:18:45,830 --> 01:18:44,280
then it is responsive

2046
01:18:47,450 --> 01:18:45,840
um and that that is what you would

2047
01:18:49,850 --> 01:18:47,460
expect if you're engaged with an

2048
01:18:52,430 --> 01:18:49,860
intelligence uh in the way that we seem

2049
01:18:54,649 --> 01:18:52,440
to be then that's exactly what you would

2050
01:18:58,310 --> 01:18:54,659
expect to see you know you would see

2051
01:19:00,530 --> 01:18:58,320
this kind of uh you know dynamism at

2052
01:19:02,630 --> 01:19:00,540
work just like you do in a relationship

2053
01:19:04,550 --> 01:19:02,640
that you have with anyone that you know

2054
01:19:06,950 --> 01:19:04,560
you're putting forth an idea you're

2055
01:19:08,570 --> 01:19:06,960
behaving in a certain way uh they're

2056
01:19:11,990 --> 01:19:08,580
trying to create a relationship with you

2057
01:19:13,970 --> 01:19:12,000
and you know as a result no they're

2058
01:19:16,430 --> 01:19:13,980
providing feedback and and that feedback

2059
01:19:18,050 --> 01:19:16,440
sometimes can be very positive hey you

2060
01:19:20,510 --> 01:19:18,060
know the way you handled this or did

2061
01:19:22,430 --> 01:19:20,520
this was great I appreciate that do that

2062
01:19:24,890 --> 01:19:22,440
do that do more of that that's good for

2063
01:19:26,990 --> 01:19:24,900
for our relationship together

2064
01:19:28,550 --> 01:19:27,000
um hey what you did there wasn't great

2065
01:19:30,649 --> 01:19:28,560
um if you you know would not do that

2066
01:19:33,050 --> 01:19:30,659
again that would be that'd be great so a

2067
01:19:36,470 --> 01:19:33,060
relationship can can grow and change in

2068
01:19:38,270 --> 01:19:36,480
ways that are you know the benefit us

2069
01:19:40,010 --> 01:19:38,280
um yeah I mean that I think we we see a

2070
01:19:42,110 --> 01:19:40,020
lot of evidence for that

2071
01:19:43,250 --> 01:19:42,120
um you know I wondered too if like as we

2072
01:19:44,870 --> 01:19:43,260
kind of come to the close of this

2073
01:19:46,729 --> 01:19:44,880
episode maybe we can touch on just a

2074
01:19:48,290 --> 01:19:46,739
little bit and and quite frankly this

2075
01:19:50,689 --> 01:19:48,300
might be an entire episode on its own

2076
01:19:54,490 --> 01:19:50,699
but you know and that that is the the

2077
01:19:57,950 --> 01:19:54,500
the emerging power of AI

2078
01:20:00,410 --> 01:19:57,960
and you know as a tool uh as something

2079
01:20:02,750 --> 01:20:00,420
that we can use to you know kind of gain

2080
01:20:06,290 --> 01:20:02,760
more Mastery of the world do you think

2081
01:20:10,669 --> 01:20:06,300
that it will what is ai's potential in

2082
01:20:13,430 --> 01:20:10,679
your mind for exposing uh you know kind

2083
01:20:16,970 --> 01:20:13,440
of what is it what does it play here uh

2084
01:20:19,729 --> 01:20:16,980
either either overtly uh will AI in

2085
01:20:22,370 --> 01:20:19,739
other words kind of uh tell us that

2086
01:20:24,649 --> 01:20:22,380
after scouring all this information it's

2087
01:20:26,630 --> 01:20:24,659
identified this giant blind spot that we

2088
01:20:29,090 --> 01:20:26,640
didn't even know about that's one way it

2089
01:20:32,090 --> 01:20:29,100
might go about it or maybe indirectly

2090
01:20:34,310 --> 01:20:32,100
like so uh AI kind of and the way it

2091
01:20:37,610 --> 01:20:34,320
presents uh solutions to us or whatnot

2092
01:20:41,270 --> 01:20:37,620
might and it's in its Behavior reveal to

2093
01:20:44,149 --> 01:20:41,280
us more about what makes us special in

2094
01:20:46,790 --> 01:20:44,159
contrast to what it is doing and that

2095
01:20:48,770 --> 01:20:46,800
might be a hint at what is out there

2096
01:20:51,410 --> 01:20:48,780
beyond our current sphere of awareness

2097
01:20:53,270 --> 01:20:51,420
what are your thoughts on that yeah

2098
01:20:55,490 --> 01:20:53,280
great questions and absolutely that's

2099
01:20:56,689 --> 01:20:55,500
that's an episode on its own but yeah

2100
01:20:57,770 --> 01:20:56,699
let's let's touch on some of the

2101
01:20:59,570 --> 01:20:57,780
highlights

2102
01:21:01,430 --> 01:20:59,580
you know one thing that has occurred to

2103
01:21:03,290 --> 01:21:01,440
me recently and I've talked to different

2104
01:21:06,350 --> 01:21:03,300
people about this

2105
01:21:08,450 --> 01:21:06,360
and I was a guest on a show that Jay

2106
01:21:12,050 --> 01:21:08,460
Christopher King hosts on the

2107
01:21:14,390 --> 01:21:12,060
experiencer group community and one of

2108
01:21:16,790 --> 01:21:14,400
the questions that came up was about AI

2109
01:21:18,110 --> 01:21:16,800
and I mentioned how we see some

2110
01:21:21,110 --> 01:21:18,120
interesting

2111
01:21:22,729 --> 01:21:21,120
parallels I would suggest between what

2112
01:21:23,930 --> 01:21:22,739
you might call ancient Technologies like

2113
01:21:25,729 --> 01:21:23,940
Tarot

2114
01:21:27,709 --> 01:21:25,739
and what we see with AI

2115
01:21:29,810 --> 01:21:27,719
so I want to remind people that when I

2116
01:21:32,090 --> 01:21:29,820
was at the Monroe Institute for this

2117
01:21:34,070 --> 01:21:32,100
private retreat last year

2118
01:21:36,950 --> 01:21:34,080
one of the things we did was we went out

2119
01:21:38,110 --> 01:21:36,960
into a meadow and we practiced C5 right

2120
01:21:41,270 --> 01:21:38,120
we sort of

2121
01:21:44,030 --> 01:21:41,280
joined uh together in this intention

2122
01:21:45,530 --> 01:21:44,040
that craft or phenomena would manifest

2123
01:21:47,689 --> 01:21:45,540
in the sky right

2124
01:21:49,370 --> 01:21:47,699
and while we were doing that there's

2125
01:21:51,890 --> 01:21:49,380
some staff at the Monroe Institute that

2126
01:21:54,890 --> 01:21:51,900
are ongoingly applying the scientific

2127
01:21:57,229 --> 01:21:54,900
method they're trying to test things and

2128
01:21:59,750 --> 01:21:57,239
present hypotheses and see if they can

2129
01:22:02,030 --> 01:21:59,760
get reproducible results so they can see

2130
01:22:05,090 --> 01:22:02,040
if their hypothesis is borne out as true

2131
01:22:07,010 --> 01:22:05,100
so one of the things we did was or they

2132
01:22:09,649 --> 01:22:07,020
did was the one of these guys that's an

2133
01:22:11,630 --> 01:22:09,659
employee at the Monroe Institute set up

2134
01:22:12,470 --> 01:22:11,640
a random number generator on the side of

2135
01:22:14,330 --> 01:22:12,480
the Hill

2136
01:22:17,570 --> 01:22:14,340
next to the meadow where we were

2137
01:22:20,270 --> 01:22:17,580
conducting the C5 experiment and what's

2138
01:22:22,370 --> 01:22:20,280
very interesting is that not only did

2139
01:22:25,729 --> 01:22:22,380
sure enough the random number generator

2140
01:22:27,169 --> 01:22:25,739
become less random at the time when the

2141
01:22:29,030 --> 01:22:27,179
phenomena showed up in the sky because

2142
01:22:30,590 --> 01:22:29,040
as I've mentioned before on each night

2143
01:22:32,930 --> 01:22:30,600
we did see things

2144
01:22:36,169 --> 01:22:32,940
and you can call it on film

2145
01:22:38,270 --> 01:22:36,179
but it even went less random when we

2146
01:22:40,250 --> 01:22:38,280
were just implying applying intention

2147
01:22:43,189 --> 01:22:40,260
shared intention right so we were

2148
01:22:45,169 --> 01:22:43,199
developing this coherent field of

2149
01:22:49,310 --> 01:22:45,179
intentionality with our Consciousness

2150
01:22:51,530 --> 01:22:49,320
alone right and that alone was enough to

2151
01:22:53,149 --> 01:22:51,540
show an impact in the results of this

2152
01:22:55,430 --> 01:22:53,159
random number generator now again

2153
01:22:58,910 --> 01:22:55,440
according to physicalism that should not

2154
01:23:01,790 --> 01:22:58,920
happen there is no mechanism within the

2155
01:23:04,490 --> 01:23:01,800
understanding of physicalism that could

2156
01:23:05,930 --> 01:23:04,500
impact that in any way you know my

2157
01:23:08,510 --> 01:23:05,940
Consciousness is supposed to be within

2158
01:23:10,130 --> 01:23:08,520
my skull yours within your skull and

2159
01:23:11,990 --> 01:23:10,140
certainly not only are those not

2160
01:23:13,790 --> 01:23:12,000
supposed to mix if we're sitting in a

2161
01:23:16,130 --> 01:23:13,800
meadow in the middle of the night trying

2162
01:23:17,510 --> 01:23:16,140
to manifest craft in the sky but it's

2163
01:23:19,130 --> 01:23:17,520
certainly not supposed to like be able

2164
01:23:20,810 --> 01:23:19,140
to travel across the grass up the hill

2165
01:23:21,770 --> 01:23:20,820
and somehow impact the random number

2166
01:23:23,570 --> 01:23:21,780
generator

2167
01:23:25,130 --> 01:23:23,580
and yes that in the that's what we see

2168
01:23:27,470 --> 01:23:25,140
so clearly this is saying something

2169
01:23:29,810 --> 01:23:27,480
about our Notions of reality are

2170
01:23:32,450 --> 01:23:29,820
incomplete perhaps even woefully

2171
01:23:33,709 --> 01:23:32,460
misguided

2172
01:23:35,750 --> 01:23:33,719
but getting back to what I was saying

2173
01:23:37,430 --> 01:23:35,760
about ancient Technologies like tarot

2174
01:23:39,410 --> 01:23:37,440
and I call it a technology I want to be

2175
01:23:40,970 --> 01:23:39,420
clear about this because

2176
01:23:43,310 --> 01:23:40,980
some people might look at that again

2177
01:23:44,470 --> 01:23:43,320
with a scientific mindset right a

2178
01:23:47,030 --> 01:23:44,480
typical

2179
01:23:48,709 --> 01:23:47,040
rationalist perspective and say

2180
01:23:50,330 --> 01:23:48,719
I mean this is people just reading into

2181
01:23:52,790 --> 01:23:50,340
things right I mean they they randomly

2182
01:23:55,250 --> 01:23:52,800
pull off cards and they they use their

2183
01:23:56,930 --> 01:23:55,260
subconscious to perhaps come up with

2184
01:23:59,090 --> 01:23:56,940
some interesting ideas about what

2185
01:24:00,590 --> 01:23:59,100
Universe was trying to tell them and I

2186
01:24:02,270 --> 01:24:00,600
used to believe that when I had kind of

2187
01:24:05,270 --> 01:24:02,280
a rationalist perspective

2188
01:24:07,729 --> 01:24:05,280
but what I've actually found since I've

2189
01:24:09,470 --> 01:24:07,739
changed my perspective on reality which

2190
01:24:12,169 --> 01:24:09,480
is interesting in itself because as you

2191
01:24:15,169 --> 01:24:12,179
change your perspective on reality you

2192
01:24:17,510 --> 01:24:15,179
begin to notice it seem to be feeding

2193
01:24:19,430 --> 01:24:17,520
back to you some different results or

2194
01:24:21,290 --> 01:24:19,440
different experiences of reality

2195
01:24:22,850 --> 01:24:21,300
as we've said before when your worldview

2196
01:24:26,270 --> 01:24:22,860
changes not only do you see the world

2197
01:24:28,790 --> 01:24:26,280
differently but the world is different

2198
01:24:30,850 --> 01:24:28,800
so with tarot what I would suggest is

2199
01:24:33,290 --> 01:24:30,860
actually happening is somehow we are

2200
01:24:37,070 --> 01:24:33,300
interacting with the conscious Cosmos

2201
01:24:39,050 --> 01:24:37,080
itself and it is actually giving us some

2202
01:24:40,370 --> 01:24:39,060
kind of information just like we talked

2203
01:24:42,169 --> 01:24:40,380
about in the channeling episode right

2204
01:24:44,510 --> 01:24:42,179
information it seems to be coming in

2205
01:24:47,390 --> 01:24:44,520
beyond the parameters of space-time and

2206
01:24:49,070 --> 01:24:47,400
without being obtained through our usual

2207
01:24:50,689 --> 01:24:49,080
five senses

2208
01:24:52,189 --> 01:24:50,699
so we already see that happening with

2209
01:24:54,290 --> 01:24:52,199
turo I think anybody who really has

2210
01:24:56,030 --> 01:24:54,300
spent a lot of time with cheroa and

2211
01:24:58,010 --> 01:24:56,040
those kinds of ancient Technologies they

2212
01:25:00,350 --> 01:24:58,020
see that actually somehow they're

2213
01:25:02,630 --> 01:25:00,360
getting valid information that's useful

2214
01:25:04,430 --> 01:25:02,640
that's that's applicable the same way

2215
01:25:07,430 --> 01:25:04,440
that a shaman going out and figuring out

2216
01:25:09,169 --> 01:25:07,440
which directions we go to find food

2217
01:25:10,850 --> 01:25:09,179
tomorrow right they got really

2218
01:25:12,890 --> 01:25:10,860
actionable information otherwise they

2219
01:25:14,450 --> 01:25:12,900
wouldn't have done it right and they

2220
01:25:16,310 --> 01:25:14,460
kept the tribe alive

2221
01:25:19,550 --> 01:25:16,320
well I would suggest in the same way

2222
01:25:22,070 --> 01:25:19,560
that somehow A.I we see evidence already

2223
01:25:24,229 --> 01:25:22,080
that AI is also somehow

2224
01:25:26,689 --> 01:25:24,239
interacting with the conscious Cosmos

2225
01:25:28,130 --> 01:25:26,699
and that this may even be part of why

2226
01:25:29,510 --> 01:25:28,140
some of the results are coming out the

2227
01:25:32,030 --> 01:25:29,520
way they are

2228
01:25:33,950 --> 01:25:32,040
so in the same way that intentionality

2229
01:25:35,870 --> 01:25:33,960
and Consciousness can impact a random

2230
01:25:38,390 --> 01:25:35,880
number generator so too can

2231
01:25:40,610 --> 01:25:38,400
Consciousness impact Ai and the

2232
01:25:42,350 --> 01:25:40,620
algorithms but not necessarily just

2233
01:25:45,530 --> 01:25:42,360
human consciousness this is the point

2234
01:25:48,169 --> 01:25:45,540
right we may now have developed tools

2235
01:25:50,450 --> 01:25:48,179
that are at such a level that now these

2236
01:25:52,850 --> 01:25:50,460
other intelligences can say okay now we

2237
01:25:55,010 --> 01:25:52,860
can enter The Fray and through some of

2238
01:25:57,169 --> 01:25:55,020
this AI Direct

2239
01:25:59,030 --> 01:25:57,179
it's another another mechanism by which

2240
01:26:01,610 --> 01:25:59,040
our civilization can be shaped right

2241
01:26:03,169 --> 01:26:01,620
going by the control system hypothesis

2242
01:26:05,270 --> 01:26:03,179
again and that that could be good or bad

2243
01:26:06,229 --> 01:26:05,280
right depending on which intelligence it

2244
01:26:08,149 --> 01:26:06,239
is

2245
01:26:11,390 --> 01:26:08,159
but you know these these are the things

2246
01:26:13,669 --> 01:26:11,400
to keep in mind in terms of AI not just

2247
01:26:16,370 --> 01:26:13,679
being necessarily pure computational

2248
01:26:19,669 --> 01:26:16,380
power right it's it's also about how is

2249
01:26:21,709 --> 01:26:19,679
how does Consciousness interface with

2250
01:26:23,830 --> 01:26:21,719
technology right

2251
01:26:26,870 --> 01:26:23,840
so yeah these are things to keep in mind

2252
01:26:28,070 --> 01:26:26,880
and you know in terms of your other

2253
01:26:30,470 --> 01:26:28,080
question

2254
01:26:31,970 --> 01:26:30,480
around will we see some sort of

2255
01:26:34,669 --> 01:26:31,980
Distinction finally and actually see

2256
01:26:36,530 --> 01:26:34,679
that AI will never be conscious the way

2257
01:26:38,510 --> 01:26:36,540
that we are I would suggest yes

2258
01:26:40,010 --> 01:26:38,520
absolutely and people like Bernardo

2259
01:26:42,649 --> 01:26:40,020
Castro have talked a lot about this and

2260
01:26:44,149 --> 01:26:42,659
he's a computer scientist who also was a

2261
01:26:46,010 --> 01:26:44,159
physicist who worked with CERN so he

2262
01:26:48,110 --> 01:26:46,020
knows what he's talking about and what

2263
01:26:50,450 --> 01:26:48,120
he sees is that we can

2264
01:26:53,209 --> 01:26:50,460
throw as much computational power as we

2265
01:26:54,890 --> 01:26:53,219
want at at this but that alone is not

2266
01:26:58,030 --> 01:26:54,900
going to create conscious experience in

2267
01:27:00,169 --> 01:26:58,040
the same way that we we experience it

2268
01:27:03,410 --> 01:27:00,179
yeah and I think that would be quite

2269
01:27:07,010 --> 01:27:03,420
profound right something that um

2270
01:27:09,770 --> 01:27:07,020
is so incredibly capable yet is clearly

2271
01:27:11,090 --> 01:27:09,780
still distinguishable from The Human

2272
01:27:13,070 --> 01:27:11,100
Experience

2273
01:27:14,990 --> 01:27:13,080
uh and I think

2274
01:27:18,229 --> 01:27:15,000
you know kind of Landing

2275
01:27:20,629 --> 01:27:18,239
where we probably should and that's even

2276
01:27:23,689 --> 01:27:20,639
more the importance of using one's

2277
01:27:26,750 --> 01:27:23,699
discernment uh When approaching this

2278
01:27:28,729 --> 01:27:26,760
topic or using these tools or trying to

2279
01:27:31,850 --> 01:27:28,739
digest the information that is happening

2280
01:27:33,649 --> 01:27:31,860
with respect to additional disclosure

2281
01:27:36,890 --> 01:27:33,659
elements that are that are coming

2282
01:27:40,189 --> 01:27:36,900
forward uh you know taking that broad

2283
01:27:42,709 --> 01:27:40,199
view feeling out you know what is that

2284
01:27:44,510 --> 01:27:42,719
what does it play here and what is on

2285
01:27:46,669 --> 01:27:44,520
the surface and what is it what is

2286
01:27:48,590 --> 01:27:46,679
deeper than the surface level because I

2287
01:27:50,209 --> 01:27:48,600
think the Temptation and and I think you

2288
01:27:51,590 --> 01:27:50,219
and I we talk about this often you know

2289
01:27:55,250 --> 01:27:51,600
we see that because we see this every

2290
01:27:57,830 --> 01:27:55,260
day the Temptation is to really just I

2291
01:28:01,729 --> 01:27:57,840
think consume that surface layer of of

2292
01:28:03,530 --> 01:28:01,739
uh of excitement or uh whenever it is

2293
01:28:06,050 --> 01:28:03,540
that we're we're hungering and hankering

2294
01:28:08,390 --> 01:28:06,060
for uh and and let that be the entire

2295
01:28:11,330 --> 01:28:08,400
meal right and and that that's that's

2296
01:28:14,030 --> 01:28:11,340
missing the point that there is a a much

2297
01:28:18,709 --> 01:28:14,040
more satisfying meaningful deeper layer

2298
01:28:21,830 --> 01:28:18,719
at work here that that is is the entire

2299
01:28:23,870 --> 01:28:21,840
ball game right it is it is the issue

2300
01:28:25,550 --> 01:28:23,880
um that we can't be distracted by in

2301
01:28:27,890 --> 01:28:25,560
some ways that you know the pyrotechnics

2302
01:28:30,350 --> 01:28:27,900
here we have to be focused on the bigger

2303
01:28:32,330 --> 01:28:30,360
picture and that being you know sort of

2304
01:28:34,669 --> 01:28:32,340
where we are as an individual and our

2305
01:28:36,709 --> 01:28:34,679
own development but also where we are as

2306
01:28:39,110 --> 01:28:36,719
a society and our society's development

2307
01:28:41,990 --> 01:28:39,120
because we we ultimately uh we can't

2308
01:28:44,330 --> 01:28:42,000
take a shortcut we have to get uh to a

2309
01:28:46,729 --> 01:28:44,340
place where where we can coexist with

2310
01:28:49,370 --> 01:28:46,739
reality as it is not how we just think

2311
01:28:51,590 --> 01:28:49,380
it happens to be we can't approach the

2312
01:28:53,390 --> 01:28:51,600
that reality with the with the way we've

2313
01:28:56,149 --> 01:28:53,400
approached reality that thus far which

2314
01:28:58,910 --> 01:28:56,159
has led to immense amount of suffering

2315
01:29:01,010 --> 01:28:58,920
and destruction uh we can't apply the

2316
01:29:03,290 --> 01:29:01,020
same tools that that we used to to use

2317
01:29:05,090 --> 01:29:03,300
but as that would be foolish you know we

2318
01:29:07,550 --> 01:29:05,100
just there's only so much we can we can

2319
01:29:09,290 --> 01:29:07,560
do as if we continue on the path we're

2320
01:29:10,610 --> 01:29:09,300
on we have to look at this from a

2321
01:29:13,729 --> 01:29:10,620
different perspective a broader

2322
01:29:15,890 --> 01:29:13,739
perspective that enriches the whole and

2323
01:29:17,870 --> 01:29:15,900
uh it's my hope that

2324
01:29:19,610 --> 01:29:17,880
that these Revelations will help us do

2325
01:29:21,770 --> 01:29:19,620
that that will catalyze that kind of

2326
01:29:24,649 --> 01:29:21,780
change but that only happens if we're

2327
01:29:27,169 --> 01:29:24,659
willing to let it do that and not get

2328
01:29:29,629 --> 01:29:27,179
caught up in the light show

2329
01:29:31,550 --> 01:29:29,639
absolutely and I think in in conclusion

2330
01:29:32,450 --> 01:29:31,560
I would hear I would say here in terms

2331
01:29:35,390 --> 01:29:32,460
of

2332
01:29:37,490 --> 01:29:35,400
our overarching question here about what

2333
01:29:39,709 --> 01:29:37,500
will this produce when science engages

2334
01:29:41,330 --> 01:29:39,719
with the phenomena right what how will

2335
01:29:46,490 --> 01:29:41,340
this change

2336
01:29:48,229 --> 01:29:46,500
I would say we have the opportunity that

2337
01:29:50,930 --> 01:29:48,239
both could happen in really positive

2338
01:29:54,410 --> 01:29:50,940
ways that's my hope that's the best case

2339
01:29:57,830 --> 01:29:54,420
scenario where yes people within ufology

2340
01:29:59,990 --> 01:29:57,840
and experiencers and the whole crew can

2341
01:30:02,570 --> 01:30:00,000
learn from bringing in academics and

2342
01:30:05,270 --> 01:30:02,580
applying academic rigor choose some of

2343
01:30:07,970 --> 01:30:05,280
our experiences and some of the data and

2344
01:30:10,010 --> 01:30:07,980
again maybe with the aid of AI we can

2345
01:30:12,890 --> 01:30:10,020
pull out connections and correlations

2346
01:30:14,990 --> 01:30:12,900
and important

2347
01:30:17,390 --> 01:30:15,000
connection points that we did not see

2348
01:30:19,250 --> 01:30:17,400
nor could maybe we ever see with our

2349
01:30:21,410 --> 01:30:19,260
with human eyes right that's one of the

2350
01:30:23,390 --> 01:30:21,420
advantage advantages with AI is it

2351
01:30:25,010 --> 01:30:23,400
sometimes poses questions that would

2352
01:30:26,750 --> 01:30:25,020
never occur to us right

2353
01:30:28,850 --> 01:30:26,760
so that's exciting in terms of what

2354
01:30:31,669 --> 01:30:28,860
might come out from this and this is

2355
01:30:34,070 --> 01:30:31,679
where you follow GN experiencers and the

2356
01:30:36,290 --> 01:30:34,080
the UFO Twitter crowd can benefit from

2357
01:30:37,910 --> 01:30:36,300
Academia getting involved

2358
01:30:40,070 --> 01:30:37,920
but I would also say

2359
01:30:41,930 --> 01:30:40,080
then the best case scenario this also

2360
01:30:44,090 --> 01:30:41,940
becomes a journey for those scientists

2361
01:30:46,370 --> 01:30:44,100
for those academics coming in that

2362
01:30:47,870 --> 01:30:46,380
ideally they come in and they begin to

2363
01:30:50,950 --> 01:30:47,880
recognize as they really wrestle with

2364
01:30:53,090 --> 01:30:50,960
the data that not only is it

2365
01:30:55,010 --> 01:30:53,100
substantial and it something really is

2366
01:30:57,590 --> 01:30:55,020
going on here and there is a there there

2367
01:31:00,709 --> 01:30:57,600
but furthermore that

2368
01:31:02,930 --> 01:31:00,719
it manifests in such a way as to show

2369
01:31:05,510 --> 01:31:02,940
how our current model of reality is

2370
01:31:07,129 --> 01:31:05,520
untenable it adds to the weight already

2371
01:31:09,530 --> 01:31:07,139
Gathering

2372
01:31:11,750 --> 01:31:09,540
suggesting that physicalism is not a

2373
01:31:13,310 --> 01:31:11,760
tenable model and hopefully that begins

2374
01:31:15,649 --> 01:31:13,320
to get us to ask questions as a

2375
01:31:17,810 --> 01:31:15,659
collective about how might Consciousness

2376
01:31:19,970 --> 01:31:17,820
be the substrate for what we perceive as

2377
01:31:21,410 --> 01:31:19,980
the physical world and if it's true that

2378
01:31:23,810 --> 01:31:21,420
perhaps even what I was saying earlier

2379
01:31:26,209 --> 01:31:23,820
is true that the entire construct is set

2380
01:31:29,450 --> 01:31:26,219
up to serve Consciousness development

2381
01:31:32,270 --> 01:31:29,460
and perhaps that will wake us up just in

2382
01:31:34,250 --> 01:31:32,280
time to begin to reconsider not only how

2383
01:31:36,770 --> 01:31:34,260
we move forward with technology but even

2384
01:31:38,930 --> 01:31:36,780
how technology might be ultimately not

2385
01:31:40,850 --> 01:31:38,940
just something that benefits us but then

2386
01:31:43,070 --> 01:31:40,860
actually could undermine our development

2387
01:31:44,689 --> 01:31:43,080
and these are the kinds of questions we

2388
01:31:47,270 --> 01:31:44,699
should be wrestling with and perhaps

2389
01:31:49,430 --> 01:31:47,280
this is all happening now as as scary as

2390
01:31:51,649 --> 01:31:49,440
it sometimes seems all of the things we

2391
01:31:53,990 --> 01:31:51,659
talked about earlier that are co-arising

2392
01:31:56,090 --> 01:31:54,000
right now it may also be that just in

2393
01:31:58,610 --> 01:31:56,100
time we have that kind of wake-up call

2394
01:32:00,490 --> 01:31:58,620
that we need because we really are at

2395
01:32:03,470 --> 01:32:00,500
the precipice

2396
01:32:05,750 --> 01:32:03,480
well said

2397
01:32:08,510 --> 01:32:05,760
well thank you for listening

2398
01:32:09,290 --> 01:32:08,520
joining us on this journey uh this

2399
01:32:11,810 --> 01:32:09,300
evening

2400
01:32:14,090 --> 01:32:11,820
it's always a pleasure to interact with

2401
01:32:16,669 --> 01:32:14,100
our audience and and read your comments

2402
01:32:19,310 --> 01:32:16,679
and get your feedback so thank you for

2403
01:32:21,169 --> 01:32:19,320
being a part of the liminal frames uh

2404
01:32:23,530 --> 01:32:21,179
listening Community it means a great

2405
01:32:27,590 --> 01:32:23,540
deal to us uh and we look forward to

2406
01:32:30,770 --> 01:32:27,600
Future conversations that arise

2407
01:32:33,890 --> 01:32:30,780
May the quality of our questions shaped

2408
01:32:36,169 --> 01:32:33,900
by a desire for understanding enhance

2409
01:32:38,149 --> 01:32:36,179
our journey of discovery

2410
01:32:41,149 --> 01:32:38,159
and mayor travels abroad in the sphere

2411
01:32:44,570 --> 01:32:41,159
of our Consciousness reminding us that

2412
01:32:47,990 --> 01:32:44,580
new discoveries beget New Horizons

2413
01:32:50,209 --> 01:32:48,000
as always Adventure awaits

2414
01:32:53,940 --> 01:32:50,219
we'll see you next time on liberal

2415
01:33:12,770 --> 01:32:56,070
[Music]